Bonuses to completing a research tree

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Lazybum, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I see 2 different ways of doing this. The simple way is when you complete all research in a tree you get a bonus of some sort, either a special item of some sort or more likely a flat bonus of some sort. Like getting all of chemistry means 20% more explosive radius to all weapons, or all of mechanical 10% bonus to hull or armor health.

    The other way gives a portion of the bonus for every node unlocked, keeping in line with the chemistry idea above that would end up something like 1.53% for every node. If you combined the ideas you could do something like 1% for each node and a flat 7% for getting everything, which would probably be the best bet.

    The whole reason I feel this can be a good idea is it helps 2 fronts, focusing on research and boons during endgame. Generally it's not a great idea to get stuff solely from 1 tree, most trees have some weakness that leave your tanks unable to effectively deal with something(buildings, infantry or other tanks). It might be a good idea for a commander to focus though if they know their team is only coming across certain elements or they can rely on players to handle stuff, and that bonus for getting everything might be the edge they need for their plans.

    It can help end games too because during the endgame when you as commander have basically gotten all the weapons your team should be using you, and more likely the team, feel the need for more research. If there was end caps to research trees it would help your team get that extra power to turn the tides towards your favor.

    I am tempted to write a list of what' could be done with each tree but I feel, and know, the thread will get sidetracked by that instead of the central idea of just a bonus to completing a research tree. I will just say that I feel like bonuses to just about any vehicle aspect would work, along with cost reductions. There isn't too much to be done with buildings, and infantry stuff still feels like it needs it's own research tree, I'm not sure wrapping it into basically the vehicle research is a good idea. So, what do you guys think?
     
  2. CRITAWAKETS

    CRITAWAKETS Member

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    Biology causes all armor to have a regen effect and maybe have Bio be more deadly.

    Physics gives more velocity to weapons.

    Mechanical Engineering allows higher maximal weight on all vehicles and adds 3-slot MG for the Heavy Tank.

    Chemistry has a new weapon that is a 3-Slot MG that is basically HEMG but way faster and stronger.

    Electrical Engineering makes locking onto a target with homing faster and makes vehicles have higher acceleration and max speed.

    Those are my ideas for the tech trees.
     
  3. NekoBaron

    NekoBaron Member

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    The current tree is awful for trying to think of new research and balancing because its rigid and only flows down a single path, unless research is reworked to allow cross research/other interesting methods and made easier for new comms to understand the basics at a first glance its always going to be a mess.
     
  4. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    +1 great suggestion
     
  5. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    That's why this suggestion works with the current research tree. I don't think it would be as nice of an idea if we had a more branching type of system.
     
  6. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    I like this idea a lot.

    Could there be infantry or building buffs perhaps? Since most technologies benefit vehicles only...
     
  7. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah, a bonus to inf sounds simple enough. Increased damage, or resist against a damage type. I've heard people say that putting a str or weakness in the same tree is a strange thing to do, but I think that had more to do with having counters in the same tree. I feel like it would make sense if your infantry had a strength against say bio if you did all the research, it just works and it's not really a hard counter, just softens the blow because it's infantry. They are quite squishy after all. There's all sorts of tiny passives too, like regen for everyone from bio(like 1 hp), or lower the amount of points need to get a skill, increased max ammo for troops, reduce spawn in time for troops by 1 second, little things.

    But what would you get from buildings? Only thing that would make sense as a bonus is just more resist, but I don't feel like buildings should have that touched. Fulfilling all research to me is either an endgame thing or a mid game that you focused for, and beefier buildings I feel just kinda help prolong things, after all they can take quite the beating as is from everything. I guess there is other things though, like reduced building costs, new buildings starting with more hp which results in faster build times, getting a certain amount back from destroyed buildings, little passive things.

    It's just in any of these cases I don't think whatever the bonus is should be an actual item that you would think you would research, like a new weapon or a new building, or an extra skill infantry can select. Choices like these feel significant, and something that should be a choice of some sort I think. Not just something you get because enough time has passed, unless it's some win condition that's less "SUPER POWERFUL" and more "you have successfully built thing, congratz you win" and enemy comm just explodes from whatever. What I was getting at is that I feel there should be a second research tree(whole tree not just another part of the current one) for infantry, buildings I feel should be just upgrades you buy for every building, instead of them just getting better like turrets.

    I also don't think it should be anything that could extend the game, like extra tickets or increased res flow. Anything added should be made to help close out a game, not just turtle harder.

    Maybe something that could be done is have a bunch of options, but let the commander just pick one of them. After all empire games aren't super long, so them getting just one bonus would help make each round feel a bit more different instead " they got bio, they got this" every game.
     
  8. .:.HeXi.:. emcalex329

    .:.HeXi.:. emcalex329 Member

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    I like the overall concept - but maybe we should make it so that you get the benefits from just researching 70% of a tree (or some number like that), or place a "biology/chemistry/physics etc." research bonus as a first tier research within a tree - because do you really want to research arty in a pub game to get whatever bonus mechanical engineering would give you? Or plasma mg for physics? (I seriously sometimes even forget that plasma is in the game.)

    Regarding infantry research, it would be nice if infantry research were bundled together somehow with vehicle research - just for example, maybe regen could give every infantryperson +1 hp per second, deflective armor could give +10% resist to explosives, composite armor could give +10% resist to bullets, etc. I'm not sure that it's the best idea ever to have separate infantry research, simply because it's almost never worth the time actually to go for infantry research over tank research, unless you're so obviously behind that you're probably going to lose anyway, or so obviously ahead that it doesn't really matter what else you can get, or the game is so late that your tanks have basically all they need - in which case, if the match is even, you shouldn't even really be running infantry around in the first place.

    For instance, the upgraded grenadier rockets in mechanical engineering is a nice touch, but I don't think I've ever seen commanders grabbing it, simply because it's often not really worth the time and it doesn't really benefit the whole team (everybody *should* have some basic idea of how to drive a tank, whereas that's not necessarily the case for playing grenadier). It would be nice if those buffs were automatically applied when medium tanks and heavies were researched, instead of standing separately as they do now.

    I wouldn't mind medium and heavy tank research taking even another 45 seconds longer or whatever, if that were the case (since I believe the grenadier research takes 45 seconds). At least that way it would be even for both teams - and it would extend the inherent dynamism of the early-middle game.
     
  9. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    When I said second research tree, I meant one that would run concurrently to the vehicle one. Like you would have 2 research trees going at the same time.
     

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