Small games are very boring and agonizing to play currently, partly due to the res income (you can be reduced to 1 res/second when stuck in your base). With this small amount, its impossible to build vehicles let alone place buildings. I personally feel a game of Empires is not fun until you begin to get at least 4-5 res/second. We know there are many problems with the player multiplier, it is in fact impossible to fix this issue with it (its only meant to fix the scarcity of resources with a large amount of players). So, for this reason, I suggest that the first refinery gets an additional 2-3 res per second. This does not go away. It would also NOT be factored into any resource multiplier like ref output or the player multiplier. This would ensure small games have a nice amount of resources while at the same time making sure large games aren't burdened with a large amount of resources (with the multiplier in large games the res can go up to 20 res/second so this would not make a difference in the abundance of res currently). Of course it doesn't have to be 2-3 res, it can be another value (maybe server controlled?) If you don't think this will work or its not a good idea, I would like to know why. I just want to make small pop games fun so I'm interested in your ideas! edit: I do not necessarily mean the start ref. I'm referring to any ref you have in your possession. As long as you have one, you get +2-3 res/second. "First" in the sense that your second and third refs (etc) do not get this bonus
How about first ref ALWAYS give 3 res per sec? Not additional, it just gives you 3 res per sec, regardless of player/ref count. I feel this is going to increase resources for low pop but decrease resources for high pop.
That would interfere with preset ref values (you would get -1 res if you camped Dam on mvalley. Escort uses 1 ref to generate +10/second I think?). Also, a 2x ref would either output only 3 res/second, 6 res/second, or 9 res/second if you included it into the multiplier. Could screw up res balance. It is why I suggested just a quick addition to the first ref
I posted in the Vintage pug thread about this. I think the issue needs to be addressed but I'm not sure this is the way to go about it. There's some merit to the idea of a base income, even if it's tied to the CV rather than your first refinery, but I'm sure a revised non-linear player multiplier could accomplish what you want without having any other effects.
I think understood your idea. I think raising the interval would be a good idea, since it doesnt seem to work properly at 1 second. This is how I understood your idea. Sorry if I didnt 8v8 currently: 2 refs, 2 res/second 8v8 trickster: 2 refs 160 res/10 seconds or 16 res/second 12v12 trickster: 2 refs 240 res/10 seconds or 24 res/second or is it like this 8v8 trickster: 2 refs 16 res/10 seconds 12v12 trickster: 2 refs 24 res/10 seconds it may stop it from rocketing really high once it hits the magic multiplier number but it still doesnt fix low/high res rates. unless ive understood wrong
There's too much proper capitalization and punctuation going on here. This isn't complete, this is an imposter! I'm kinda torn, if only because I like how in the early game you kinda have to decide which front you want to push and keep and which you are just going to give just enough support to kinda live. I mean in the sense the first 5 minutes of the game, I really like that early game. This is kinda good for later game and you are stuck in main, but Personally I feel if we ever get to the point where a team gets stuck in main they game should definitely end in 5 minutes, assuming the winning team is actually trying to win. It is only a couple more res though, 2-3 sounds not terrible in any case I'm trying to make so yeah I don't see much harm from it. Would like it better if the higher amount of res you can get on the map was lowered so there is a more gentle slope of res income if this makes any sense.
Keep in mind the current interval is 1.5s and not 1s (the resometer ticks every second which is why sometimes you'll get 2 res and sometimes 4), which is probably why Trickster suggested a 15s timer instead of 10s. As for your idea, as far as I'm concerned resources distribution, including starting refineries are the mapper's responsibility. I think you're reading too much into one bad experience on emp_flat. Which, by the way, Silk described as unfinished and never flushed out. The truth is there are many maps that are on NUBS that should clearly not be played. That leads to bad experience and misconceptions of that sort.
Aside from the ridiculously low res income and lack of natural cover to allow infantry battles to compensate for it.
Umm this has nothing to do with flat. This has to do with every single map in low population games. Each ref only gives out 1 res/second. If you have 3 refs thats 3/res a second. That 3 minutes just to get out a 500 res tank. That's only if buildings or other vehicles aren't built. Its a serious problem and the reason why the game is only fun once it hits 10v10. (the refs start counting as 2). If you're waiting 3 minutes to get out a vehicle to fight back you've probably already lost the map. Having 2 or 1 refs just makes the game worthy of a grief since there's no way to come back since there's no res. And the solution isnt to change all refs to 2 res/second because that would make the multiplier even worse once it kicks in. In a 16v16 game in the early game each ref gives 3 res/second. In a 20v20 each ref gets 4 res/second. As you can see, you may not notice it but in the early game the start ref can give out 3 res/second or more if the game is populated. So its not really a change to early game, only to small games. And whats good about this suggestion is that its not adding res to all refs, but only one, so there's not an abundance of res. We can probably increase the res multiplier to a higher number once this is implemented. Some numbers: Crossroads 3 refs 8v8: 3 res/second Crossroads 3 refs 8v8 with my suggestion 5-6 res/second Crossroads 3 refs 20v20: 9 res/second Crossroads 3 refs 20v20 with my suggestion: 11-12 res/second AND, if we were to raise the player multiplier to 30 rather than 20 afterward: Crossroads 3 refs 20v20 with my suggestion: 8-9 res/second (less res in high pop games!) So I hope you guys see how much closer the res is with this, without a huge jump. before there was a serious absence of res in small games and and with this the jump in res is much more smaller once you hit the multiplier abnd yes im either an imposter or have a brain tumor
You may not be entirely wrong with me not seeing it in large games, I have commanded way more low pop games then high pop so I might have missed it. I did say I do like the suggestion but I still want to kinda cap off the higher end along with this.
commanding small games is actually funner than playing them, i find (as long as you expect to lose). you can at least move around the map and aren't confined to your base. --- so nobody's really said if this idea is bad yet, besides the idea that mappers are responsible for their map's res (i think this is wrong because mappers aren't in charge of res intervals/player multipliers). tricksters suggestion is going to take alot of testing and playing with values and might not even work out, which is why i suggest this. can someone please post if they think this idea is bad+why? im honestly interested. noone has voted yet either so i can't gauge interest.
in that case only 1 ref would get the +2-3 res. there would be a check to see if there is at least one ref built and if there is one, the res is applied. im not saying to apply this to the start ref. thats why i dont think mappers can solve this issue. making the start ref double res harms the freedom to build a base where you want since you're kinda relegated to your main. in a 10v10 game currently, 2 start refs would give you 4 res/second. if you raise the player multiplier and use this instead. it would give you 4-5 res/second. with even smaller games than that, it would give the same res while the current way would give you only 2 res
May I just suggest giving a +2 bonus if the cv is alive? That may be easier than deciding which is the first ref... And may also prevent that irritating moment when you have no refs, no resources, but a functioning base and plenty of tickets...
this has nothing to do with the first ref built... it has to do with any ref you have in your possession. i used first so people dont think i want every ref to get a +2 bonus. a functional base means you can recycle it for res. i'm not looking to change the gameplay with this suggestion (a CV that generates resources is another suggestion entirely). i just want low population games to play better.
i think vulcans suggestion has a merrit. it also - partially, since you are still fucked - solves the issue of a nub not placing the first ref on those few maps where there is no prebuilt ref. just let the cv generate those 2 scaling resources.
but having no refs in lowskill games is a different "problem" than lack of income per second in small pop games. i dont want people to mix up issues in this game because some might feel one is good as is. so i only want to talk about the issues of res income in small games. the only reason why i made this topic was to give an idea to make small pop games more palatable to play and thus increase playercounts. what sucks is that i KNOW there are people who do not like this suggestion but wont post or vote no in the poll because "they like me" or some shit. its happened before on here and i really hate it. i give an idea to make small games better, but nobody cares enough to post if they like or dislike the idea
