Okay i gonna explain first why i making this thread. I'm a Tank and other military vehicles guy, that love doing model kits and learning about military technology. Empires is actually quite empty on this thing, meaning it is open to debate and even improve the way of those units. I KNOW that people don't care or even hate lore/background things in games, but i prefer those more, than just looking at actual tank flood and multiple bugs, crashes. Lets be more creative and hobbyist about things, shall we? And of course please, no offtopic, throwing meat and doing whatever, i beg for normal talk about empires technology and trying to fill the gaps that are empty for now so we can have better approach for game. Yes i know game isn't popular, but it doesn't mean we can't have fun with it. Models are very old and need some updating, especially to missing MG, ML and even Proper cannon models, damn even some vehicles have zero sense... ===============[ Warning! Post gonna be rebuilded]=========================== Here are new, prototype images links for this post_vehicle: [1] http://imgur.com/AU7TBh9 [2] http://imgur.com/TRmYoed ===============[* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *]=========================== 1. Base information As far i checked the lore in empires wiki, i found zero information about weapons used by vehicles in Empires. I mean clear data about calibers, rounds used and why it look that way. Everything give me a look that nobody was that much interested in military standardization or just military tech. To do some research i checked models itself in Garry's mod to compare them with other models, other game vehicles (props). I spend some time to just think about vehicles design and why they look like this... Of course i'm more a old style guy, that prefers more vehicle class basing than just modern MBT approach, so if someone is more in modern tech, please give me some tweaks about things i gonna mention. 2. NF: Light Tank In those photos i put a Player model, Hull + Turret + cannon, Armored Combat Framework addon from Gmod as cannon compare tool and World War 2 vehicle, looking close enough to vehicle in Empires. 1) First thing that hits me is Nothern Faction is using a vehicle very low to ground. Most important approach for Tank combat because unit is hard to hit from distance. It have 2 plate armoring, and 150 hp hull. Weapons are standard for both factions. 1 slot block each, meaning both factions use same weaponry. From just looking on ammo ballistic i think both factions use 75mm howitzer. Short barrel, early tech. Damage done by it is 50 hp and only 3000 units of speed for compare, standard ml rocket have 1600 UoS. 0.5 gravity units make it perfect close combat gun for shooting through small obstacles, but problematic when fighting on distance and/or in move. 2) What i want point is perfect base for early combat vehicle, low profile is helpful on distance combat. Only thing i miss is, that standard cannon could have upgrade for HEAT rounds. HEAT isn't perfect for destroying buildings or against infantry but could help against vehicles. Quick, small and HEAT armed tank could be a serious problem for enemy forces when hit by ambush. Simple example is Panzer 4 Ausf F1 armed with HEAT or M8 "Scoot" with HEAT. In War Thunder (i pointing game, because we are playing games ) HEATs are very good against people with tightened crew and tightened modules. How Empires HEAT could work? I think about only 2 approach. 1st one is high armor damage. 2nd is direct Hull damage, of course it should be low but still a different weapon against unaware and lazy tank driver. Other than that, it think, NF could improve Light tank for later use. Giving it just 1 wheel set more and put bigger turret to arm with medium class weapons. Weakness? weak armor and just lightly improved hull hp. In this picture i analyzed turret and cannon. (#1 in picture) Cannon matches in size with ACF short 75mm cannon . Thats why i think both standard cannons are 75mm. (#2 in picture) Turret looks very cramped or even unreal to work. As far i know if this tank uses crew to fight, turret is too small to operate. If tank uses auto-loader then there is no way somebody can fit through that hole. In both situations, turret need change it cannon position to its right side. Why, you can ask, well, quickest example is interior of T-70, Soviet tank. It have small turret like NF light but use only 45mm cannon (smaller) and put it into right side, so commander can reload it without being crushed by backing-off cannon. Mostly i pointing that centered cannon gonna crush anyone sitting in that hole. As far i see, NF isn't rich with materials, so i ask more why Turret is rounded and look like casted. Casting isn't cheap as i know, of course i can be wrong in Empires universe, but still i think it isn't really needed for this basic, cheap tank. It could use just welded, simple turret that can hold ATGM launcher (ml slot), coaxial MG (this turret have it, it is something) and 75mm howitzer cannon on side part so additional player can fit into hatch hole. If NF is capable of using autoloader, it would not require commander to reload that cannon and bring us why it is quick firring. Another thing it could need change is size of wheels. They are little too wide and big, Even BT-7 light tank don't used huge wheels to operate, especially in games. Wheels in NF LT can be lightened a bit so less rubber gonna be used for it. In this picture i put NF LT and M8 greyhound. I didn't put perfectly them in line but still eye can pick differences in size. Still mostly in 2nd picture and this you see similar things. In front have driver/radio-operator space, then combat space and last Engine bay. Only thing that touches me is Why NF put driver so close to armor. We can't see interior of LT but i guess this isn't right placement for driver being up-close. Of course it can be just periscope being designed more forward than actual driver seat, but still it is confusing. If Empires had Modules approach then driver was easiest thing to knockout and kill just player than tank. I'm still not sure what NF designers created inside and technology available for faction. For me driver periscopes should be like 1 each for different angle, and hatch only accessible form roof armor. Okay now it is time to OOC and ask you what you think about thread idea and trying to point what could NEW model have and improve visual design and what parts of Empires technology could be just more explained lore/background vise. AGAIN i gonna ask, please, don't offtopic too much and throw meat, this tread is aimed for just creativeness, not trying to shout """FIX IT becuz reasons""". I want make it clear and readable thing even with my rubbish English, but i can't make every vehicle in just one shoot so i pick one vehicle for now, i have ready photos for BE AFV discuss, but i need think it more than just complain about its size.
This is another universe so I'm pretty sure it was all just made up military tech to serve whatever is needed. NF I don't think has a base design, besides the obvious heavy tank influence. I don't think anyone has been able to pinpoint where the light/medium came from but BE tanks are rather obvious.
Well... i have stupid feel i made that NF light tank post poorly... must... resist... re-writing whole thing and add even more research... help... There is a way i could like have easier and better control over the post style? Because i not sure if i can even consider rework for it. Of course i already planned do AFV one post, but my perfectionism syndrome is tingling me as f-ck.
Google "Alvis Saladin" and "Panhard EBR" bouth tanks look simmilar to the nf light, but the Panhard looks like the Light Nf tanks dad. The alvis can go up 70 km/h and the Panhard goes 100 km/h I think this is where the idea came from and honestly i dont think a remodel into the Panhard would change much except making the nf light look more "interesting" i guess is the word.
I know Panhard EBR, but difference is in how this vehicle act. NF light have 2 differentials and only frontal wheels steerable. Panhard uses forward and rear turning. It is completely other universe of steering that vehicle, mostly insane good turn rate for wheeled unit. (EDIT i forgot Germans were faster, Sd. Kfz. 234 uses 2 steering rods but it requires 2 drivers) NF light isn't that good unit and as far i see look of it, i think Light is more a cheap unit than advanced vehicle, thats why i I'm pointing that upgraded light could have appearance, because better cannon and high mobility could be new toy to fight against slow tanks or combat recon.
Martin i'd really appreciate it if you could add to the "Research" section of this document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v6vkjZ8Xk9M8dSylT5LCwj5tQ-LnXL4JQsgLTl__8Bo/edit#
