[1.x] vehicle issues

Discussion in 'Support' started by dizzyone, Jul 31, 2007.

  1. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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    Here are 2 issues that have been since 1.0

    -Vehicle speed remains unchanged when in overheated stated. If you drive at full speed you will not slow down in overheated state, unless you slow down caused by other conditions, the max speed lowered by your overheated state and the values in the config will go into effect.
    This is either a very dodgy feature, but I'm guessing its a bug.

    -Vehicle heat caused by firing a weapon overflows. When shooting a weapon that requires a certain amount of heat, only the amount till 100 total vehicle heat is deducted, the rest overheats and is not taken into account. This causes tank drivers to be able to shoot a nuke immediately after their heat dissipates. To over exaggerate this effect, if you would be able to equip 2 nukes and shoot them at the same time (you cant equip 2 nukes, but this is the extreme) you would be able to shoot both when having only 99 heat, while the configs state that a nuke requires a certain amount of heat to shoot.

    Hopefully these can be fixed to create better engine and weapon balance.
     
  2. pickjaoe

    pickjaoe Member

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    I never really noticed the 1st one but now that you mention it, I think once you get to red you should start slowing down a certain number based on your engine.

    The second one I have always noticed and I thought that it should have been fixed but never mentioned it.
     
  3. Private Sandbag

    Private Sandbag Member

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    I agree with both points- good suggestion pickajaoe with the slowdown.


    I thought that all extra heat from firing could possibly go into hull damage? probably not popular with everyone.
     
  4. MOOtant

    MOOtant Member

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    1. You can't equip a tank with 2 nukes so it doesn't really matter.
    2. Engine descriptions are weird. If you would compare them with real values with scripts you would be surprised. (I don't remember what it was exactly, you can check scripts)
    3. IMHO release 1.08 first and then fix subtle bugs.
     
  5. arklansman

    arklansman Member

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    But you can fire a nuke if you have 99 heat, which does matter. ;)
     
  6. MOOtant

    MOOtant Member

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    It takes 10-20 seconds just to reload nuke and dissipate all the heat from previous nuke. For fucks sake I spent 3k resources and 240+ seconds to get something useful.

    Oh I forgot maps like slaughtered make nukes very powerful. But I don't think that big balance changes are needed just because of 1 map full of choke points.
     
  7. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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    You make know sense m00tant.
    What if it took longer to dissipate the heat than reloading the nuke? Obviously you wouldnt know, because its never been into effect. What if you had fission engine and it was supposed to be into effect? You now don't have the downsides of equipping a nuke on a fission engine.

    What if someone knows you have a nuke and is trying to keep you over heated with a plasma mg? Well it doesnt matter how hard he tries, the second one point dissipates, he can shoot it, even though the enemy put all his plasma bullets in your tank.

    next point, it creates exploitable tactics, shoot your low heat weapons first, when you are in the reds, shoot the nuke. If you did it the other way around, well you know...
    next point, what if I has a shovel, shove it into your face, turn it around 360 degrees and shake, would you listen for once? :D
     
  8. MOOtant

    MOOtant Member

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    Sry, it looks like I can't really logically think so late: I saw overflow and thought that it doesn't imply being able to shoot after heat falling back to 99.
     
  9. Krenzo

    Krenzo Administrator

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    If you look at the vehicle_engines.txt file, there's a line that reads "Heat Stall Penalty" that tells you how fast you can go of your normal speed when overheated. It's not 0, that means you'll retain some speed. A lot of the time you feel like you're going the same speed because your momentum is keeping you going and that little bit of throttle is still moving you a little. When you slow down, you don't get moving again because you don't have momentum and that tiny amount of throttle you have is hard to get you moving again. STFU noob.

    The second issue was designed that way. In Mechwarrior, the excessive heat forced you to shutdown, or it cooked off your ammunition. The only thing I'd be willing to do is force the meter to go below a certain level (75%) before you could fire your weapons again after reaching 100%.
     
  10. Niarbeht

    Niarbeht Member

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    You COULD have an area beyond 100% heat, and thus you could still fire at 99%, but it would effectively destroy the "bug", since then you'd have a heat of something like 180%, and thus would look like a dumbass.

    Oh, and the areas above 100% would probably be best left un-gauged.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2007
  11. Jcw87

    Jcw87 Member

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    This makes nukes a good counter to plasma, so that plasma isn't an overpowered pwn everything weapon.
     
  12. Private Sandbag

    Private Sandbag Member

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    this is gunna sound far too good to be real, but what if you had to have the heat needed to fire the weapon to be able to fire it? However, then you wouldn't get overheated at all, ever.

    You can still be overheated if someone shoots you i guess.
     
  13. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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    Well you know those scripts aren't all that clear on what everything exactly means, but if that line is in, its not making any difference, try driving a standard engine the penalty is nowhere near noticable. But then again I'm glad to know that it is something that can be changed, I remember trying to do a bit with fission and gas turbine in overheated state and my efforts were useless as you kept driving anyway.

    and about the second, I would like to see that, or maybe if the amount of heat that overflowed is above a certain point your hull would take damage. Its just a bit fake you can overflow over to 150 heat and being able to dissipate down from 100 only after a second or so.
     
  14. Kuma

    Kuma Member

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    And, if your heat hits 180% everything would shut down untill it went to yellow or green, so moving is impossible, firing is impossible, and you are a sitting duck for a good 30-50 seconds
     
  15. Chahk

    Chahk Member

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    What if excess heat dealt damage directly to your own hull? Nothing too overwhelming, perhaps 1hp for every 5% over 100%. Wouldn't that make you think twice about firing off that Nuke at 99% heat? On the other hand, it would give you a choice of sacrificing health of your vehicle for that extra shot.
     
  16. Kuma

    Kuma Member

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    A nuke does what? 75 heat? thats 15 damage. I have had an NF heavy tank take 3 lvl 3 missile hits on my side with no armor before going down, and I believe that that is much more then 15 damage. So in that case, that last nuke doesn't look to bad.
     
  17. knighttemplar

    knighttemplar Member

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    ok, can we just stop here and all promise not to derail someone's idea because we don't agree with their numbers. I like Chahk's idea, it doesn't really matter to me what numbers he puts up there, I know it'll get changed by the dev team.

    Can we start talking about ideas, and not about the variables within that idea? I think sometimes we want to add our imput so badly that we get impatiant and post stuff that really isn't necessary at a given time in an idea's development.
     
  18. Chahk

    Chahk Member

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    Yeah, don't take numbers literally, I used them just as an example.
     
  19. Kuma

    Kuma Member

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    My message was misinterpreted, all I meant by that was that with that idea, the damage would be to little, justifying that last shot, or some ungodly amount where firing 1 machine gun bullet will kill you. I didn't mean to use the numbers in chahk's example as the defining be all amount. I just meant that if the damage is to little per heat unit, the player wont think to himself...hmm firing this nuke will only cost me [insert negligible amount damage here]

    But don't get me wrong, I love the idea that heat=damage it will actually justify the Plasma Cannon. All excess heat inflected by the cannon would transfer to damage. My only point in my last post is that it will be hard to balance.
     
  20. mr_quackums

    mr_quackums Member

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    but the current weapon/heat issue is unbalanced. if that complicated subject could be reduced to 1 variable (heat-dmg ratio) then balancing would become easier.

    btw, love the dmg idea.
     

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