Hey Krenzo:

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by dumpster_fox, Jul 12, 2007.

  1. Slithzerikai

    Slithzerikai I for one am glad the NF SMG 3 is gone

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    I may get the shit kicked out of me for this, but I did not shed a tear for the people in 9/11, they don't make up a drop of blood for the literally millions of civllian casualties America caused in it's existance, unnescessary ones even!

    And don't give me that "but Germany gassed yews" shit either, because this here is not about Germany!
     
  2. rampantandroid

    rampantandroid Member

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    So, what...IED goes off, 3 marines die from the blast - Marines get out of the Humvees, you're telling me those people watching the IED go off are innocent civilians? BULLSHIT. They KNEW it was there, they ALLOWED it to be put there. Its a crime in the US to withhold information.

    Sure, I'll flame. What did 9/11 people do, huh? What? They went to fucking work. They didn't beleieve they needed to kill other people to go to heaven or anything, they went to work. They were working people, not welfare scum. So they deserved to die? Holy fucking shit batman!

    What innocents have we killed? Hm? Did we go there saying "Fuck man, I wanna kill those fucking ragheads"? NO! Did they come to the US with intent to kill innocents on 9/11? Fuck yes. Furthermore, who has killed more - US soldiers not watching their ROE, or insurgents blowing up Mosques? Try the latter. If you think the US has killed more "innocents" your math is worse than McClellan's math (a Civil War General of the Army of the Potomac - he always thought he was outnumbered...)
     
  3. DJ Die

    DJ Die Member

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    best solution was to remove Saddam during first war he would have everyones support including most of civilians
    what US did was one of worst possible scenarios not providing civs with food and water wont help i know you may argue that you dont have to give them anything but it was war that caused this

    99% muslims dont believe killing innocent will get them to heaven because thats same as for christians with one difference they can kill but only in self defence
    terrorists are just stupid fanatics nothing more and their leaders are using that
    even if civilians would give marines that info i doubt they would so something oh and would you call cops if you had guys hiding nearby who would kill your family if you do that? i dont think so
     
  4. Slithzerikai

    Slithzerikai I for one am glad the NF SMG 3 is gone

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    Just every Iraqi death. If America didn't issue an UNPROVOKED attack upon Iraq, no people would have been blowing shit up there either, no I.E.D. would have been ANYWHERE.
     
  5. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    For the record, the only times I brought up Nazis are when other people brought them up first.

    Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, even the Bush administration has admitted that. We would have Osama Bin Laden's head on a platter right now if we hadn't pulled troops out of Afghanistan to go invade Iraq.

    As for slaughtering whole towns... too ridiculous to comment.
     
  6. Solokiller

    Solokiller Member

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    The CIA knew where Bin Laden was, but they didn't attack because of the civilians around the area. If they did, there wouldn't be any war on terror.
     
  7. KILLX

    KILLX Banned

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    ftlog, this is the most off topic discussion i can remember
     
  8. dumpster_fox

    dumpster_fox Member

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    Actually, yeah, chances are they didn't know it was there, since I.E.D.s tend to kill many more Iraqi civillians than U.S. troops. Furthermore, if a civillian did see one being planted and wanted to report it, chances are he wouldn't be able to find anybody to report it to in time. I.E.D.s are short-term things, usually detonated manually. An insurgent isn't going to be sitting there for two days waiting until troops come by. Also, if someone is caught informing U.S. troops, chances are they and their entire family will be murdered. It's a bit more complicated than you make it sound.

    Generally, U.S. forces are making good progress on a smaller scale (towns, villages, etc). A lot of civillians are friendly towards them, openly expressing gratitude and the like. U.S. forces do have a good supply of informants. However, on a larger scale, the occupation isn't going nearly as well.

    By the way, the "kill a whole town" thing? That's exactly what the Romans used to do - in their final years.
     
  9. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    DF: yeah, the number of civilians killed in Iraq FAR outweighs marines OR insurgents. There is no debate on that issue. The Iraqis themselves are the ones taking the brunt of the warfare, not us.

    Not to mention the fact that we KNOW (everyone from Bush on down) that the biggest threat (according to most), AQI, is composed mainly of foreign fighters, ESPECIALLY the suicide bombers. Yeah, given the chance, the Shia and most of the Sunni Iraqis would kill all of AQI without blinking an eye. So the genocide argument and the IED thing don't really hold water.
     
  10. Slithzerikai

    Slithzerikai I for one am glad the NF SMG 3 is gone

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    America has no reason to be there, they're trying to get to own another country. Destroying their infrastructure and building it up from the ground up like a nice brainwashing treatment. Iraqi insurgents are much like "You either get the fuck out, or we'll blow up everyone in here including ourselves so there's nothing left for you".
     
  11. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    oh, we have PLENTY of reason to be there NOW. The lack of any sort of government other then a token political presence makes it a breeding ground for future terrorists. Plus if we pull out of the country, the surrounding nations would carry out a full scale war by proxy, using terrorist groups and whatnot. Not to mention the risk of genocide (probably against the sunnis, but i suppose all the groups are at risk) in the worst case scenario if our forces leave. There may not have been terrorists in Iraq when we went in, but there sure as hell are terrorists in there now, and they're having a field day.

    This has nothing to do with owning a country, not anymore. That idea got royally fucked years ago. Now it has to do with not causing the entire middle east to explode into war.

    (I exaggerate, maybe, but certainly not by much.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2007
  12. rampantandroid

    rampantandroid Member

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    You are fucking moron if you think that the insurgents are "good" - absolute fucking waste of the air you breathe. I do not believe that one can justify killing in such a manner; not like that. You want to kill marines? Fine. But it isn't just that, its also killing civilians and its killing people who are not the same denomination as you. The Christians have not done anything similar for quite some time. No, the insurgents aren't killing so there is nothing left, they are killing everyone who doesn't follow them.

    Wanna believe in that Slithzerkai? Fine. You don't believe in what I do; that means I get to kill you and your family. See how great of a system this is?

    You want to blame someone for trying to force democracy on the Iraqis (which I do not agree with)? OK. Blame Woodrow Wilson, perhaps the worst president in the history of the US. His main competitiors have to be FDR, and Buchanan, somewhere down there is Clinton as well.

    Regarding lobsters comments on the regions stability - he is right...I think that's the only reason we have to stay.
     
  13. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    there's no question about stability. every surrounding nation, especially iran, would just LOVE to carve their name on that big swathe of land labeled iraq. Especially the oil fields, and woe unto those who don't follow the same religion as the conqueror.
     
  14. Solokiller

    Solokiller Member

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    Wasn't the problem that the terrorists misunderstood Mohammed's words "try to convert everybody to being a muslim"?
     
  15. The Buttery Lobster

    The Buttery Lobster Drama Queen.

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    no i mean sunni vs. shiite vs. kurd. The nations bordering iraq have diff. religious views of islam. Just woke up, can't type good, too groggy for details. more later.
     
  16. KILLX

    KILLX Banned

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    someone get that lobster a coffee!
     
  17. =PVCS) Cpatton

    =PVCS) Cpatton Member

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    Lobster has surmized it in a very, VERY succinct way, but that is the basic situation.

    I didn't support going after Suddam, there is very little we can do about the middle east that is "easy". I could sit here and bore you guys for ages with Islamic ideals and history that all have bearing on the current situation. However, what we have done is put ourselves in a position to very directly affect the animosity that surrounds the middle east today. Unfortunately, there is very little we can do at this point that does not increase it and further direct it at us. I personally feel there is not much that can be done from the outside about the middle east, but pulling out now will turn Iraq into a warzone, and a massive hate of America will stay with it, breeding terrorists like mosquitoes on a marsh.


    Rampantandroid, you REALLY need to explain to me what the fuck Woodrow Wilson has to do with this, because I am fucking confused.
     
  18. Slithzerikai

    Slithzerikai I for one am glad the NF SMG 3 is gone

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    rampantandroid's blind, mindless faith in the "flawless, pristine, and unmatched American empire" reminds me of your average republican...
     
  19. =PVCS) Cpatton

    =PVCS) Cpatton Member

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    oh and for the record, rampantandroid, if you think FDR was bad I outta fuck you in the ass with a steel pipe. But bearing on this situation, there has been no more helpful president to the middle east than Clinton, and I challenge you to find actual evidence to the contrary, rather than spew mindless unproven judgements.
     
  20. Private Sandbag

    Private Sandbag Member

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    I just had some treacle tart, and i don't know about what you guys are eating but this stuff tastes GOOD! like home made style good. if you heat it up a bit, give it some cream then honestly it's the nicest food there is.
     

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