Imperial AFV, Round Two

Discussion in 'Art' started by PwnedYoAss, May 10, 2017.

  1. -=[Combine Soldier #43]=-

    -=[Combine Soldier #43]=- Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So, is there any progress? Will this be ever implemented into the game? I really like the look of this AFV.
     
  2. Thexa4

    Thexa4 Developer Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    0
    @PwnedYoAss: send me a message if you want help getting it in-game.
     
  3. .Oktay.

    .Oktay. Member

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i like most of your AFV design but the opening above the turret where the second seat is.is to much inside the turret as a second driver you cant shot because only your head shows off to change that the opening above the turret must be higher and so you can shot outside and all of the second seats ingame your chest and head shows off the tank if only your head shows off is almost impossible to hit it as the enemy.

    Here is a screanshot how the APC and AFV has the second seat
    Unbenannt.PNG


    Is clearly above the turret nor semi inside of it ohh and maybe and some small windows on the sides above the door hight


     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  4. PwnedYoAss

    PwnedYoAss Member

    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, uh. Minimal? Been busy with some other stuff.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Changed up the profile of the body a bit, added these grooves that kind of imply that the thing is assembled in four or so pieces...

    The back door was heavily changed, hated what I had before and decided to go in the direction you see now.

    Yeah I realized that half way through modeling it. The top turret area is definitely a WIP, was trying to figure out a good idea for it.
     
    Neoony likes this.
  5. Mechanic

    Mechanic Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    When looking up close at current AFV it make no sence at all.
    No hatches or doors, weird placement of top hatch, no MG and ML and so on...
    But what if "no ML" is not a bug, but a feature?
    I dont know about NATO AFVs, but there is soviet and russian barrel launched rockets in production since 1970s. For exampe 9К112 "Cobra" for T64A tank in 1975, 9K119 "Reflex" and 9K120 "Svir'" for T72, T80, T84 and T90, it works even with automatic loader. There is versions for AFVs, Self Proppeled artillery and towed cannons.
    Obviously barrel launch impossible with salvo rockets (or maybe possible with use of rocket clusters, separating after leaving barrel - not sure on this).
     
  6. PwnedYoAss

    PwnedYoAss Member

    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Honestly looking at the BE models it's clear there was a lot of features removed due to polygon counts being tighter 10 years ago. I'm suspecting the original model had MG/ML bits on it. As for the hatch, yeah no it's not awesome. Admittedly, the hatch placement actually kind of balances out the fact that the BE AFV/APC have hatches in the first place. Sort of.
     
  7. Mechanic

    Mechanic Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was saying mostly about barrel launched rockets (which still not making any sence in Empires when ML and cannon equiped).
    What if move hatch to one side? On many armored vehicles crew members siting on sides of turret, not behind the cannon.
     
  8. Ranger

    Ranger Member

    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Many NATO vehicles can fire barrel launched missiles. It only depends if the vehicle has a rifled barrel and or a smoothbore. The sobiets were the first to replace their rifled guns with smoothbore exactly for this purpose, for the capability to fire missiles. Most use smoothbore in America and EU. A notable exception is the Challenger of UK, which still uses rifled barrels.
     
  9. Mechanic

    Mechanic Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I checked russian 100mm 2A70 cannon, it has rifled barrel (and 3 types of guided rocket style munitions for it), then browsed barrel launched rockets. It is possible now to use many of it with rifled cannons. The only problem is not every auto-loader can handle such ammo (it must be loaded manually).
    ...I think it is getting us far from original topic. Lets move back to it:
    What if abandon additional ML straped to turret and just add to rocket description text about launching it from barrel? There is only one problem: cannon and launcher in game have separate reload, and it doesnt look right if both ammo types launched with same barrel while still have separate "reload" delay and can be launched simultaneously.
     
  10. Ranger

    Ranger Member

    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It is pointless to fire a guided projectile or a dumb one with just fins like a sabot, using a rifled gun. It doesn't add any additional effect. It only tries to give the projectile a spin to maintain its speed a bit longer to increase its range, but if already has fins it only disrupts it and decreases its effectiveness. So to do that you need to have a reason and use specialized ammo. Dumb rockets are the only regular ,effective ammo a rifled gun could effectively fire and they would have to work as a sabot (Primary projectile, secondary projectile, missile). Thing is even rockets can give themselves a spin to achieve gyroscopic inertia for better aerodynamic.

    A reason to fire missiles from the turret could be to have the secondary AT weapon inide the turret and therefore be less vulnerable to enemy fire, so it can't be destroyed as easily. This could add gameplay value if weapons were destroyable. There have been talks about this throughout the years but I don't know if duke is planning on implementing that.

    Such AT missiles in real life have a range of ~4km generally. The use of such weapon in Empires would not be very convenient. It actually decreases tactical options, if anything (Obviously cause it would stop the main cannon from operating). However, it also depends on how weapons will be designed, the level of customization and effectiveness of weapons. I've got no clue about that, so hard to say anything for sure. Pros and cons of using the cannon as a missile launcher could be discussed.
    I too, have thought of cannon launched missiles, but I sticked to smoothbore for simplicity.
     
  11. Mechanic

    Mechanic Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You are taking it way to seriously! I wasn't writing anything about cannon "rocket-type" ammo for regular in-game cannons. It was only about ingame visuals: do not add any ML (geometry and texture) and just say in description about ML using gun barrel as launch tube so there no need to remove main gun model when tank has only MLs and MG, or add ML model when player chooses to add it to loadout.

    I know guided AT barrel launched munitions have range up to 5.5 km, and it is not fit for the game, where raming damaged enemy is valid tactic and many tank battles taking place in narrow canyons while opponents shooting each other from 10 meters!
    By the way, there IS some guided munitions, designed for rifled cannons, i can find Tech manuals for some old versions, but don't ask to translate it :grinnf: (it is in Russian, scaned JPEGs mostly).
     
  12. Ranger

    Ranger Member

    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ah I didn't mean to imply realistic stats should be applied. Guided missiles could be useful on tanks in empires if you could have fire bigger missiles for example, or if you want ur tank to be full missiles. external and in the turret. But all this depends on the weapons scripts themselves and how they are coded. That's what I meant.
     
  13. Mechanic

    Mechanic Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Do you mean "rocket cannon" + some (two?) MLs? I dont believe there is anybody who will use such loadout, sacrifacing armour for firepower. It looks like "glass cannon" to me. Way too fragile to be usefull.
    On other hand - why not? This type of cannon can give homing or guided projectiles to vehicles with no standart ML slot.
     
  14. Ranger

    Ranger Member

    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I meant in addition to the external missile slots. no armour sacrificed. missiles weapons weigh as much as cannons or less (of the same size)
     
  15. Mechanic

    Mechanic Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I understood it. 3 MLs on 1 vehicle must be a lot of firepower... And what is important, firepower without arc, so it can be used even by complete "noob player" from great distance. On other hand in many cases i choosing additional plate of armour over much lighter MG and never using GLs.
    Is PwnedYoAss around? Interesting to see progress on his WIP model.
    ...there is some critique about it:
    1. Very small hinges on rear door. Plus on door of this size can be placed smaller hatch/door (like M113 US APC - very usefull if not need to open large one or when hydraulics not working)
    2. Drivers observation device (triplex, periscope? - not sure about correct term) - there should be at least 3 of it to give driver wider field of view ( for example: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0DArmYkM4-s/Ud-loQmEUeI/AAAAAAAAH40/mJQZiVOFBnQ/s1600/M113.jpg) - not a problem if there is thin glass or single periscope, but Brenodi vehicles are high-tech, and simple glass is too simple for them.
    3. Side doors with its windows. If it thick enough to stop bullet - crew can see only sky using it.
    4. Ladders on sides: such a ladder would be very uncomfortable to climb and what is the reason to climb there? (no roof space to sit or place equipment/backpacks etc. only sloped armour)
     

Share This Page