Vehicle armor that gains extra health per plate

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by PwnedYoAss, May 3, 2017.

  1. PwnedYoAss

    PwnedYoAss Member

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    How about we have an armor where, if you have more plates, you have more health per plate. That is, with each plate you put on a tank, that side's plates will have more health per plate.

    So, either the newly added plate will have more health, or every plate will gain health. So, for example if the armor for some reason had 10 HP per plate, the second plate would have 20 HP, and the third plate would have 30 HP, and so on. Or, all the plates would have 30 HP.

    This would incentivize building fully plated vehicles. Albeit, this will likely require some serious balancing but hey I bet it could be done. Would also make for an interesting armor in say, some new tech tree about building upgrades and resonator weapons.
     
  2. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Code:
    		"Layered Armor"
    		{
    			"Name"			"Layered Armor"		//name given to research item
    			"Parent"		"Structural Engineering"				//name of parent that this branches from
    			"Description"		"(Technology: Vehicle Armor) Apply techniques used in defensive bunker construction to plating design that result in vehicle armor that becomes sturdier the more plates are originally installed on the vehicle."	//description given when hovering over research item
    			"Icon"			"comm/hex_armor"			//icon drawn on research tree
    			"Unresearched Icon"	"comm/hex_armor_empty"		//icon drawn in the GUI
    			"Type"			"0"		//nothing
    			"Cost"			"0"		//cost of this research item
    			"Time"			"90"		//time to research this item in seconds
    			"Team"			""		//which team can research this
    			"XPos"			"50"
    			"YPos"			"92"
    		}
    
    I went and wrote a thing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  3. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    @PwnedYoAss It sounds interesting.
    A bit of maths:
    sum (10->60) = 210... ~3 plates of absorbent
    60*6 =360, which is less than 6 plates of absorbent.

    Some more maths:
    (Reactive is 120hp iirc)
    Sum(20->120) = 420 ~ 4 plates of reactive...
    120*6 = 720 ~ 6 plates of reactive.
    But with only 4 plates... It would be 80*4 = 320 ~ 3 plates of reactive.

    It would definitely be an interesting armour...
    15/14 weight per plate, 10 cost? Or make it cheaper...
    I'm concerned that it wouldn't be worth it on lighter tanks, unless it was proportional to max plates on that side?

    It's a cool idea, and if we're drafting new armours... Can I suggest one that increases hull hp? Like, no special features, but has a stronger internal structure so (for example) doubles hull HP...
     
  4. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    By design, "layered" armor would be better on bigger tanks. NF mediums would get the best bang for the buck.
     
  5. PwnedYoAss

    PwnedYoAss Member

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    Haha, there we go.
    Times like this, wish we had a damned spreadsheet for armor data. Or, you know research data. I'm being pretty passive aggressive about this. Edit: The lack of a spreadsheet, or database of research that is.

    That armor idea sounds hysterical, mainly because it sounds like the type of armor you would get for a small map with narrow corridors. You could potentially build a tank that's totally okay with getting hit from all angles. Would be an interesting armor. Potentially gimmicky if the numbers aren't right.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  6. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    So it's just a late game armor, that's all I'm getting out of this. I kinda wonder if I would ever bother to research it to be honest.
     
  7. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    If it was strong enough and coupled with a passable engine, I would totally get it for NF in some cases. Absorbant light tanks are weak but still okay, if "layered" ones are as good against grenadiers/AFVs, the research path will be reasonable.
     
  8. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    That's the thing though, if you try to make it viable at all early game you are basically getting rid of reactive, you know the high hp armor. After all they are both high hp armors, nothing but hp going for them, so when you have that overlap one of them will clearly be useless.

    Shield armor, which basically instantly regenerated a low hp plate, that spart had at one point was a better thing that got better late game because it was bad against grens but it kinda worked quite well against the meager damage output of lights, and would get better on heavier chassis. It had several short comings because of the low hp though, it was all about cracking that shell, so it made for a unique experience. If we want more things I'd hope it would be things that change gameplay a bit instead of just require less thinking.
     
  9. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Code:
    		"Organic Shielding"
    		{
    			"Name"			"Organic Shielding"		//name given to research item
    			"Parent"		"Biology"				//name of parent that this branches from
    			"Description"		"(Technology: Vehicle Armor) Develop a more fragile but rapidly regrowing cancer-like version of the pathogen which thrives in heat. Using an advanced heat distribution system, it can be used to create a weak vehicle armor that reforms seconds after being destroyed."	//description given when hovering over research item
    			"Icon"			"comm/hex_armor"			//icon drawn on research tree
    			"Unresearched Icon"	"comm/hex_armor_empty"		//icon drawn in the GUI
    			"Type"			"0"		//nothing
    			"Cost"			"0"		//cost of this research item
    			"Time"			"90"		//time to research this item in seconds
    			"Team"			""		//which team can research this
    			"XPos"			"50"
    			"YPos"			"92"
    		}
    
    I went and wrote another thing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  10. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    Pretty sure code is there for upgraded buildings, don't quote me on that, but all they need are models to make the buildings appear more upgraded/fortified.

    Edit: I just realized this is slightly off topic. I was going more off a post that said something about a structural engineering branch for upgraded buildings that this armor could fall under.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  11. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    Just throwing it out there - I don't think building stronger tanks that do less damage is going to be great for gameplay.
     
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  12. MartinPL

    MartinPL Member

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    Well thats heavy dependent of what gonna happen. British Heavy tank Churchill MK3 have puny gun, but in some games it is fun tank due to high survivability, often turning you into throwing biscuit juggernaut. If empires got something similar then we could just put it forward to just to make enemy tunnel vision on it. Like i said, that kind of stuff is heavy dependent of what is going on. Just my 3 cents. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  13. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    But more likely what will happen is everyone will have tanks that never die because they have huge hp and very low alpha damage

    Choke point maps will be even further stalemated.

    It isn't much fun plinking away at a tank for minutes at a time, as it is they are too survivable.
     
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  14. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    On the flipside, the heavily armored tanks still have enough damage to destroy an attempt at pushing through with squishier but more damaging tanks.

    At the end of the day, the solution to stalemates is still to use artillery and break support infrastructure/force enemies away from strong defensive positions.
     
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  15. PwnedYoAss

    PwnedYoAss Member

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    Mainly what I'm concerned about if an armor like this existed. That being said, you may end up seeing people using this armor to push instead of defend. I mean I don't know what kind of weaponry you'd stack on top of a 6 plate heavy with this stuff but, that's where the numbers come in. Although, even now you can't really get anything more than a 4-5 plate heavy without sacrificing a second missile or cannon.

    We do only have a few viable tank configurations in terms of weapons unfortunately.
     
  16. MartinPL

    MartinPL Member

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    Well mostly what is going on is, people sometimes got tunnel vision when sitting in tanks, you can just sneak pass in some maps 1 man engi with available ammo crate to hit enemy refineries that can cut out supply, additionally hit repair pads. Still best should be using Artillery fire and coordinated spearhead attacks. Thats is missing for me. I never saw anything else than Tank flooding mechanic. Who got better flood wins. There wasn't any different situations when both commanders are good ones.
     
  17. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    I think that's due to the assumption "artillery loses games"... Because when artillery is researched, lots of people suddenly get in and use the new tank instead of keeping with their old ones. We just need more coordination and teamwork i think...
     
  18. MartinPL

    MartinPL Member

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    It is hard to make people listen to commander when they put tunnel vision googles called 'Α' and 'Ω' . How we gonna translate players in tanks this? :

    "An armoured spearhead (American English: armored spearhead) is a formation of armoured fighting vehicles, mostly tanks, that form the front of an offensive thrust during a battle. The idea is to concentrate as much firepower into a small front as possible, so any defenders in front of them will be overwhelmed. As the spearhead moves forward, infantry units following in the gap behind them form up on either side of the line of advance in order to protect the flanks.
    The tactic is quite risky. A determined enemy can counterattack against the infantry on the flanks, thereby cutting off the spearhead from resupply and quickly bringing it to a halt. In order to avoid this the spearhead must move as fast as possible in order to keep the defense from re-organizing in this fashion."

    And this? :
    "A barrage is a particular method of delivering massed artillery fire from a few or many batteries. Individual guns or howitzers are aimed at points, typically 20–30 yards (18–27 m) apart, along one or more lines that can be from a few hundred to several thousand yards long. The lines are usually 100 yards (91 m) apart and fire is lifted from one line to the next and one or several lines may be simultaneously engaged by different firing units. The artillery usually fired at a continuous steady rate, using high explosive or shrapnel shells."

    Of course coordinated squads can do it, but in open games there are little amounts of those and when One team have 2 those squads and Second team don't, then we have thing we often shout "Stacked". Someone gonna say, go PUG or league match but as far i see, more salt is trowed than actual fun and sportsmanship. But thats just outside view of things.
     
  19. BigTeef

    BigTeef Bootleg Headshot master

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    Or just put a cap on arty tanks to 3.
     
  20. Avatarix

    Avatarix Member

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