The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Paradox, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    truth hurts huh? sorry...

    if European countries want to keep their borders open that's their business and we wanting to secure ours it's our business, in fact that's the oath taken by our govt officials, to protect the people of our country from foreign or domestic harm.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  2. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    truth? you mean alternative facts.
    its worse in the us of a than in any of the countries named. and not only slightly ...
     
  3. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    we are not stopping immigration, people are welcome to immigrate to the USA through the proper channels. So it seems all of you who are so offended by the "wall" don't endorse following laws, and advocate illegal acts. Do you need to follow laws in your countries or do you get the choice of which laws you want to follow and which you can disregard?

    If these people would not break the law by entering the USA illegally and not smuggle drugs and such to our country, there would be no reason to build a wall.

    So if you have a problem with the USA securing its borders, direct your discussions to the people who are the cause for it.
     
  4. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    I'm not saying the US shouldn't have tighter borders and controls on illegal immigration, but the wall is a huge waste of money, it won't stop drugs or people. If you want to fix the drug problem you have to treat it as a health issue and stop issuing draconian prison terms.

    A massive wall is just symbolic, Trumps very own pyramid.
     
  5. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    I guess you dont know but the bill passed to build a wall on our southern borders was passed years ago over 10 years ago and appropriations were set aside for it then, itll cost more by now but it has been on the books with money put aside for it for over a decade..
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    @A-z-K like the us doesnt already have strict immigration laws and an iron curtain 2.0 on its southern border?
     
  7. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    heres interesting information
    In addition to then Sens. Obama, Biden and Hilary Clinton, 64 House Democrats and 23 Senate Democrats voted for the wall in 2006.
     
  8. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    How do mexicans indirectly pay for the wall when its an export tax tell me. Cause I explained word by word how it works and you counter by saying it they will pay thats it. Thats not how economics works mate.
     
  9. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    I think its quite sad if you are only pointing out the bad part about HELPING REFUGEES.
    Ok everyone can and should admit the crime ratr has gone up. But has it gone up a lot? No. The media just enlarges it when the crime was perpetrated by a refugee. It hasnt even gone up by 0.10℅.

    On the otherside, we have helped millions of war torn people. Is that not worth it. I think its a bit selfish of you to say how bad europeans immigration is when in fact ee are helping people. Yes they arent our nationality, but they are humans too, suffering humans who are asking for help. Every immigration discussion here comes down to crimes and the negative. But not the positive effect.

    America doesnt care about other humans thats clear as day.
     
  10. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    you are just blinded by MSM, you should read more alternative fact sites
     
  11. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    Well, it's not an export tax by the Mexican government, it's an import Tariff to the US. Difference being the US collects the money, not Mexico.

    So... whenever a good is shipped across the mexico/us border, the US will collect a tax/fee. That money can then be used for our infrastructure, healthcare, police, military etc which could ALSO be used to fund a wall. This is them indirectly paying for it. That is how economics can work m8.

    Also, regarding immigration, back on the old Politics thread I did a BIG writeup on it with lots of statistics and such, they are much more likely to be radicalized than most people care to admit, especially from the war torn countries. I don't want to take in someone who put's their religion first and views most others as being an infidel.
     
  12. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    yeah and who buys the stuff brought to the us, mexicans?

    also have you ever seen a refugee in reallife?
     
  13. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    It would still be on the shelf able to be bought by anyone? I mean, what kind of question is this?
     
  14. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Guys, real quick before you all get super into it. I will actually bother to moderate the thread, so please keep it civil. I really don't want to deal with a bunch of reports of everyone being terrible to each other. I kinda let the last thread slip because it's 160 pages of huge text walls and I wasn't about to sift through all that to find where the problems started.

    Just remember, if you can't say anything nice, or at least neutral, just don't say anything at all.
     
  15. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    so who pays in the end? where do companies get money from? does it grow on trees or could it be that its the consumer?
     
  16. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I think flashce's point is import tariff can give a reason to increase the price of said product, so in the end the consumer is paying extra for the good.

    I don't know shit about economics or anything though, so I'm just guessing here.
     
  17. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    can? can is quite optimistic ...


    ... but yeah thats my point. so trump says he wants to increase prices of imported goods by about 1/3rd (his 35% tariffs) to "bring jobs back home". problem with that is, the average salary in the us is about 3 times as high as in mexico, still far from competitive.
    usually manual labor is the biggest part of the price, thats why we love "rationalization", which actually is nothing but an euphemism for "reduce the human workforce because its costly".
    thats also the reason why almost any labor intensive work got outsourced to lowest wage countries with barely any social security, worker rights or enviromental protection (all that increases costs for a company).

    not saying its good that way, but i doubt that any trump voter gives a flying fuck about a sweatshop worker in eastern asia. its all about "they steal our jabs", "we gonna show them".
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  18. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Ok ok, I get why you dont understand how the Americans pay for the wall instead of the mexicans. Cause you dont understand shit about economics.
    Let me explain it to you like you are a 12 year old.


    Lets take this Mexican company that sells tortillas. They make the tortilla in their home country of mexico. It costs them 1 dollar to make from factory to your store in America.

    That 1 dollar equates to ingredients, infrastructure, payed labour shipping and taxes. In the store in America they sell the tortillas for 1.50 dollars. So they get a profit of 50 cents.

    The import tax was lets say 10 percent. You guys are going to up it to 20 percent.
    So lets say your total production costs go up to 1.10 dollars. If you continue to sell it to the American crowd at 1.50 dollar you'll have less profits and your investors are going to be not happy.
    So what do you do? You raise your price in the store making it 1.60 dollars. So in the end the Mexicans arent losing any profits they just pay more to the American government, and ask more from the US customers. The consumer is paying more because big companies dont want to lose profits.

    So lets do the math here. The Mexican companies get the same amount of profit, the American government gets more money, and the American people pay more money. Ow what? The american people are paying for the wall?

    Do you understand now how the Mexicans arent really paying for the wall? They are paying for the wall incase the company doesnt sell. But if it stops selling they just stop making it and shpping it to the US. Either way, the Americans are paying for the wall pretty.

    Do you understand economy now? Next time dont act like you know when you have shit all idea beyond how import tarifs work. Its like your medicine student joke you pulled
     
  19. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    You are indeed right.
     
  20. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    refugees and immigrants are two different things, and we give asylum to those who need it. but we don't want to reward illegal immigration, which has nothing to do with refugees.
    as for the import tax, no one will buy their goods when there are the same cheaper. so Americans wont be paying the tax because they wont be buying their goods.
    for ever kind of good sold in the USA there are hundreds of choices for each.

    and chances are importers wont even import their goods here knowing they wont sell.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017

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