BroTeam twitch joined last night - nubtastic

Discussion in 'General' started by JustGoFly, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    This group decided to join and play, and you can get a good idea of how a nub views the game from this guys use. It doesn't seem fun at first look.

    Video Start at 2 hrs 16 mins to see the start.

    What is very interesting is that he speaks all the way through and you can hear what he's thinking. He finds most everything, but doesn't understand the objective.

    We still need a button at start that explains more about the maps, typical strategy, recommendations on what to spawn as. District: "Spawn as Rifleman with xxxx skill, a good second skill is yyy. On this map you take each flag in order until you beat the enemy to death. Watch your tickets - top 150:150 of the screen, once they run down to zero, you won't be able to spawn."

    Thanks MadSkeleton for pointing this out. We all joined that Beta server last night but just missed this crew. They obviously wanted to play alone without vets. Which by the ways is why we need a VETS server. When we joined everyone ping was above 150 ms latency.
     
  2. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    A vets only server would exclude newbies though and hurt the game in way of populating it. I doubt once there is a vet server any vet would want to play with newbs, but if most think its a good idea I will ask the creeper.
     
  3. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    what really stops a newbie from joining a vet server and other way around?

    Im not sure if this is a good idea cause we dont even the the player count to keep 1 server up the entire time. I rather play 1 25 v 25 than have 2 games running 12v12
     
  4. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    Having newbies equally on both teams would be beneficial, however without an XP system to differentiate who is new and who isn't... people will just claim they have more noobs than the enemy.

    This would have been a GREAT way to bring in more people, but they simply didn't understand it. I wish we could talk to them and convince them to try it out again and get them into a semi-intense match.

    50,000 twitch followers, 200,000 youtube subs. Imagine 1 video posted on their YT. TBH, we should contact them and try to convince them to come to the next PUG.
     
  5. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    Noobs don't like to be owned every match. Let them play for a month on a noob only server, and graduate to the vet server. If you watched the video of these guys wanting to play Empires - they did not want to play with Vets. They wanted to do stupid things to see if they liked the game. They obviously thought it was too complicated and moved on. he was learning quickly - figuring out COM, and how to play. I wouldn't eliminate noobs from the vets server - since there might not be anyone playing on the noob server. But there would have to be strict rules about playing on the noob server. It should be to teach or talk, and not to own noobs. Also the noob server could have tutorial maps or easier maps, or even game maps that we don't usually play but are fun. And at the end of every map it should have a vote for a type of map - not a list of map names (Infantry Map, Commander Map, Game Map). And have a rotation for each group.

    My whole point is you lose more people than you gain because only the ones who can learn fast will remain around and get spanked for four months before they learn to fight back. That is not fun for them.

    Invite them to the next PUG - really? Build maps that aid them in learning, but are fun, not strictly educational. District is easy to learn - and teachs how to work in a squad. The whole commander mode has been made even more difficult than it has been previously , because there are more options and the infantry options are mixed in with the tank options - WTF !

    Set them up with Winter Games, or Tank Training, or District - and only them. They seemed to like a commander map - but that may have been that they wanted to drive vehicles. They had not interest in research or strategy. So Tank Training, or Escort would have been better than any of the maps they played.
     
  6. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    they should have played on the practice server, there are 2 of them one with bots one w/o and their sever names clearly states it, did anyone direct them to these servers? and no I didn't see the vid
     
  7. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    having equal newbies and vets on each team is unrealistic and an extremely poor policy to dictate which team someone should join.ás bad as stacking is taking away a players choice to choose a team is worse.
     
  8. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    There is very little that can be done in terms of helping them learn. Why? The tutorial doesn't even help and how would making maps that cater to noobs be fun for others? They see players on X server, they aren't going to join server Y because no one is on it. That's the problem, we can't just brush this off as "They should have gone to this server before joining, it's their fault". When you join a game, or really anyone, how often do you go play the tutorial? Not very often, especially if it's a multiplayer only game. You go play the multiplayer cause it's fun and you get to interact with people.

    Also, I suggest the next PUG simply because then they can see literal action and stream it. A youtube video on a big channel with highlights of them having fun in a PUG would do more for this game than any advertisement or anything.

    They don't know any of this. They seemed to be getting the hang of Palmbay, but they didnt know a lot of the controls. We need to make the controls more available... like Press Enter to change spawns, F2 to get to Comm view (which they figured out), just general stuff like that.
     
  9. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    I agree.
     
  10. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    We already have a "noob" server, it's called the practice server. The reality is that it won't stay populated throughout the day. Hell, the main server doesn't stay populated around the clock. The active population is just too small to support such a playerbase split, and unless it grows to the point where the main server stays populated all the time, any other server's activity will be occasional and spotty.
     
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  11. Tama

    Tama Developer Staff Member Web Developer

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    Interestingly enough, right when they start playing in that video, the bug I created where ore points still show "Stand back! etc." even when they are already built up was the first hint to the player that there is a commander, and reminded him to start looking for the CV (so, I guess this was not at all his first time playing).
     
  12. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    so if what is said about the learning curve, the lack of a tutorial and how newbies have no chance at all is true, how did we end up with at least 2 full servers back in 2008?

    not saying empires would be especially newbie friendly, clear and easy to grasp. sure there is tons of space for improvements on that front, but i do think its by far not the only reason.
    for me the bigger issue is that even tho 8 years have passed since, empires has barely moved on. yes there are some convenience improvements (something newbies wont know anyway), a lot has been done "under the hood", but thats not what (new) players see.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  13. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    Empires really isn't that difficult to understand. There's just no decent video guide anywhere and the GUI is, well it's not exactly nurturing.
    Simple concepts like rts/fps interaction, economy & tech tree, etc are just hidden pretty well.
     
  14. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    when i started to play there was neither a video guide, nor a tutorial map. all i had was people ingame i could watch, later the wiki, the forums and IRC. it really cant be that (at least not that alone)
    but im dead serious here, if i would find empires today, id think, "meh crap gfx" and move on. because i am a little graphics whore when it comes to FPS. i dont mind so much about graphics in other genres, but FPS better look halfway decent.

    also @jgf: i dont think people who download empires do it because they want to play district. district is the least empiresy map of the official ones. i also dont think they do because they want to play vehicletraining or any other of those maps. empires is advertised as RTS/FPS, limiting players to non-comm maps will appear like false advertising.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  15. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    Sure, but I mean you have to treat it in isolation of little mods/indie games with mechanics that aren't the main stream.
    Look at NS2, admittedl its a commercial game but its probably one of the closest and it has some decent tubes
     
  16. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    no im not saying having tutorials, videos and shit would be bad or hurtful, ofc not - i just dont think that it is the major issue. empires just isnt visually appealing (anymore?). its more like ns1 than ns2. everything is blocky with squashy textures. the maps are bland, wide open and most lack any visual interest.

    and this wont change on source. why would anyone do anything for source engine in 2017? its dated, theres nothing but limits, the workflow on modern engines is so much more convenient and everything instantly looks better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  17. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    @D.D.D. Destroyer has made a great set of tutorial videos on YouTube.

    People keep saying visuals are the problem... Are they really? Which parts specifically? Maps? Models?

    I play on high settings (max. everything). And the game looks damn good.
     
  18. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    the better question is, what doesnt just look old. textures are squashy (most are 512², todays standard is 4 times that), models are blocky, maps are bland, animations are weird, barely any eyecandy shaders, lighting is like "wtf are shadows" because vrad just wont take lower lighting values or it crashes (aside of that it would take weeks to compile) - hell modern engines have nicer looking dynamic lights/shadows than source - no decent foilage system, and the list could go on and on ...

    and i also can max everything in 4k with stable framerates (even tho no hdr and not motion blur for me, but not bc my computer cant handle it, motion blur looks meh and hdr is too inconsistent)
    we must be playing different games ...

    also i dont mean to say, build a game that can compete with bf1 visually. i know thats totally out of scope. but the are worlds inbetween.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  19. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Everyone sets the "minimum graphical fidelity" bar somewhere else, and the bar tends to get moved a lot as time goes on. There is only so much you can do to address that in Empires as we know it, and even less so when you consider our artist supply. The best we can hope for is minor improvements here and there and that players lower their bars enough for Empires to be passable in their eyes.

    The learning curve, on the other hand, could still be improved by a fair margin.
     
  20. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    but ask yourself, why should anyone do anything for source engine? its a drag to do anything and you cant even use it for a portfolio because noone gives a shit about source anymore.
    i think chances you find modelers willing to do stuff on modern engines is a lot better. same probably goes for coders.

    also as you said, the minimum graphics fidelity changes over the year, it wont get any better, over the course of the recent years empires lost more and more players. noone will lower their bars, no matter how funfuckingtastic gameplay is - you dont SEE gameplay. you see bland maps with squashy textures and blocky stuff.
    years ago we were told porting the game would take years. now its years and its still years and it will take even more years if nothing gets started. years the playerbase will slowly but steadily decline.

    i know a bit here and there, i also would be willing to help - tho im a bit lazy, especially when it comes to the boring stuff like writing qc files or converting stuff into hundreds of different formats only to be able to see it in hlmv - but there is nothing to invest time in.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017

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