Winter PUG, December 17th

Discussion in 'Events' started by Lazybum, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    For security who needs to pay attention in games

    as you can see you guys got mediums at 25 minutes and in those 2 minutes before we didnt take any ground back from you guys when we had meds. So dont give me that shit that you think that lost you the game. What lost you the game was at minutes 31 when we took southwest with a group of 5-7 mediums.

    Another failed attempt to take south west was at minute 27 the rush. Everyone went east instead of west and we lost so many tanks. Thought it was game over at that point when we did that.

    Also note that instead of pushing through that chokepoint southwest into middle we let you guys just lose tanks there 1 by 1. We had 10 tanks there at some point as xya mentioned but at 35:20 you can see that we are tactically pulling back so you guys could flood the chokepoint and then we could fire on the chokepoint killing tanks. Whilst we didnt lose a single tank there

    that juicy rush at min 40

    also you guys needed to get a squad rev squad up way faster. We had squadrevs squad up at like 30 tickets left
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  2. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    Eh, the medium tank thing did cost us a bit, but really early game my game crashed and that cost us north west. Alpha was suppose to secure it but then I crashed and when I came back it was very very disorganized and we didn't secure anything that we needed to.
     
  3. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    It absolutely didnt cost you anything. Like you can even see on xya his minimap during those minutes nothing really happend shift of balance wise
     
  4. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    I com'd for Paradox's team and from my perspective what we did worked very well both match's. Paradox managed the strategy, and everyone listened.

    First match, We had some very smart squads focusing on resource points. Senor Awesome and Kai come to mind, in keeping me informed of what was needed, and that fed the team to have virtually unlimited resources. We never came close to running out of resources. I focused on dropping buildings, giving targets, and research. We did full Absorbant, coolant. Speed on that map is useless. Absorbant is so light we had more weapons than BE. Then initially HE Canon with dual light ML's initially, followed by guided, then bio MG to make very good mediums. Although Absorbant is light it is very good vs HE Canon and BIO ML - which is what BE had. It is also about 30% cheaper, so we could push more tanks.

    I do think Paradox's plan after the first attack failed, worked. He held back a large group, then pushed a large group together. But we also had an independent squad holding north and making sure those resource points were held. That worked!

    Kudos to LazyBum for an excellent PUG - best I've ever been in.
    Kudos to Paradox for very well run strategy and communications,
    and Kudos to NF for awesome fighting and clear communications.

    Second match - we would have won if it wasn't for Arty. Arty is so strong and in a choke neck map, we dropped quickly. Arty also eats up most armors. I crashed early in the game so we lost some research time for the minutes it took me to rejoin. But I don't think that mattered too much since I didn't intend to research Arty (my mistake), and someone did keep researching in my absence. We also started the game 3 ppl down, but again that wasn't the main issue. The fight was awesome on both sides. I loved that the enemy squad revived a bunch of grens in my base mid game, and tried to kill the com. I got down to one sheet of front armor - but once detected, I moved and Paradox moved in with a squad to clean up.

    I have some ideas for the next match that would be useful to both teams. If each squad leader could be picked ahead of time and only they and the com join a private TeamSpeak channel during the match, that would enable the com to get direct information from each squad leader. I don't think we lost much due to communications - but I'd like to hear from those that may have been typing and were possibly ignored, was it an issue?

    Also start of game, speeding up of the team selection would be good. I liked the way it was done, but it needs to be faster. A special Teamspeak channel between the squad leaders, coms and captain (X and Paradox) could speed that up.

    Thank you Paradox for letting me Command NF. I enjoyed both match's.
     
  5. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Picking players was done though the pug plugin, it's just it had a couple of issues for both captains. The menu to pick a player wasn't showing up for either half the time and picking a player though chat requires the full name I think, which can be hard considering many don't have easy names to spell. So picking players ended up a lot slower for both sides. It wouldn't have been any faster I think for an admin to switch players either, I would have to type in full names as well I think.

    Pug plugin needs a little work, but it's been very helpful so far I think. It's only seen use twice, and the first time the server crashed so we didn't even get a chance to see how things like switching sides would work. Unfortunately just like with a lot of empires development finding people to to properly test stuff is incredibly difficult, so public settings are pretty much the only time we find out things are working as intended.
     
  6. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    It should have been over right there, but the scout I revived for the stunning part had concussion grenades. He said he told me but he was still willing to crawl over and wait for the moment without telling me again, so I had no idea. We needed probably another 10 seconds to end it, and a stun would have given us that.
     
  7. Smithy

    Smithy Developer Staff Member Administrator

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    I watched part of Xya's replay, I could hear the rage in your voice right after Siberian Husky said "I TOLD YOU I DIDN'T HAVE STICKIES"; like did he expect to be useful without them xD?
    Pretty funny to watch but also rage inducing at the same time.
     
  8. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Okay, last reply.
    I have no comment on NF's action beyond 25 minutes mark.

    But our medium tank delay was not just 2 minutes, it's almost 5 minutes.
    Check the minimap between 16 : 10(when you got medium) and 21 : 00(when we got medium) game time.
    You can't possibly say that it didn't matter at all.

    It's like you are saying : "Because we had a 50-50 team fight at 30 min, the shit you lost at 20 min didn't matter at all."

    Again I am not gonna blame Xya, he stepped up to comm and it's not a scrim, in the end I wouldn't care, 100 kudos to him.
    I am just being straight and objective here.

    I am not gonna deny that you guys did get some tactics to work, those tactics kept you guys going, but they didn't form the turning point.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  9. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    What I said was not because we were equal at 30 min that it dodnt matter. What I said was nothing changed on the map from when we got mediums to when you got mediums to the point where we tactically rushed then it changed.

    When we had meds and you didnt the map didnt change at all. We didnt have middle. We didnt have south west.

    When we had meds and you did too nothing changed we didnt have middle, we didnt have south west.

    It changed when we decided to get all our mediums together and push your mid ref keeping it dpwn for both teams.

    So saying you guys lost cause of research delay is stupid cause before you got mediums and after you got medis nothing changed map wise.


    You lost cause you never made any big plays to take a part of the map even though you could.

    Somewhere around when you guys got meds and I saw the build up I warned the team that a rush might be imminent and game deciding. But it never came.

    You guys lost because of 3 major turning points in the game

    1. We had rev squads going from 30 tickets onwards. You guys couldve come back if you had more tickets because res wise you still had enuugh to pump out meds.

    2. When we rushed middle you never got that ref back up nor did u push us back to our original position behind the slope.

    3. When we rushed south west the exact same happend, you didnt push us back nor did u take another part.

    You never did a major group push anywhere and went all out to take it sacrificing a few tanks in return.
     
  10. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I'd like to point out at this point that if they did have meds as soon as they could have they might have beaten us way sooner because they would have had the firepower to actually push up into our main, and not just kinda keep us at bay right outside of it.
     
  11. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    Well If I were stunned I would have dropped an armory to block you. I had upgraded turrets around main, so you were not going to walk around. The team responded quickly too, so that helped. Anyway - it reminded me of the games a couple years ago where most games were won with everyone wondering "What just happened".
     
  12. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    1 sticky and it would have been over because we could shoot over the armory since we were in the second floor of the building, we didn't have to run around. We had squad arty and 4 grens blowing away. You were yellowish-green when you got away according to my armor detection. One more barrage of rockets and a squad arty and it would have been GG before that medium rolled in
     
  13. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    Maybe - that many grens should have been able to complete the job quickly. No one ARTY'd me, and that could have been the difference. I did put down an upgraded turret in front of me, so I'm sure that kept you guys pinned a little or possibly drew your focus. I believe I still had one sheet after I got away, it took no time at all to put on the other front sheets while the heavies mowed you guys down. At any rate - the beauty of it all was the immediate response from the team and my surprise of that many grens. Fortunately I detected you on the first barrage or it could have been nub com city.

    Recently I've noticed more surprise attacks. This means the second wave of vets is moving into that category of being bored with just the normal play. It makes the game a bit more interesting. Senor Awesome caught me last night after I build an upgraded turret just outside the range of 25 other turrets on Slaughtered. But they had engineers and scouts. And it would take about 2 minutes to kill a com with a scout. So I calmly told the team - "I am stickied, you have one minute to get to C1, or game is over". We got out Red and blinking. One gren or a rifleman with sticky would have completed the attack.

    And on that note - Grens are more powerful than medium tanks. It's hardly worth researching mediums. Three decent grens followed by a rifleman and a good revive engineer can walk through the map and clean up everything in their path. I also hate that they made Arty so OP. And now randomized the research branch's. I was researching last night and realized I got Guided and was researching UML, when I intended coolant. Why are things in the research tree being moved? I don't read the branch nodes, I know where everything is, click/click/click and no reading. But if it's moved you just made it more difficult for com's who have memorized the whole research tree. Are we really attempting to alphabetize or something equally useless to make it 1% simpler for a nub com that will fail anyway? First rule of programming an API: When upgrading a group - add to the bottom, don't insert in the middle or you screw up every legacy implementation.

    If you have no one willing to command, this game is not enjoyable for anyone.
     
  14. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    I agree BUT
    I do think rushing with 5 medium tanks is better than getting a full veteran squad together because of the amount of teamwork it takes.
    Ive organised plenty of these 5 man veteran scout engi triple rifleman right click death squads and succeeded, but the ammount of coordination and teamwork requires is quite crazy.

    Organizing a 5 man tank rush is easyer and I think would be more achievable this day and age where people suck at coordination and teamwork.
    The only hurdle I have with these kinds of tactic is of convincing people the game wont be won if you dont rush and that they have to stick to the plan and follow me.
     
  15. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    I agree, we had one tactician in the PUGS (YOU), who is normally COM, but I think it worked since it enabled the COM to focus on other things, including giving targets and not getting nub attacked. Had I stayed in F2 too long, giving alot of tactical feedback to team, I could have been dead before I knew it. I know of a handful of guys ready to join that attack squad and who can listen and react quickly. BUT my hesitation is it will make every budding COM in the game not want to com anymore. Instead of randomizing the research nodes, why not add more things to help a com against being killed instantly. Armor is so weak now it takes very little to kill the com. If there were some defense, I would be first to sign up for the Ninja Squad and bring in some talent. And I'm being quite hypocritical, since when I was learning to COM, I was vehemently against the Ninja attacks that Trickster and FN are famous for. But if the COM had something, eg: an EMP pulse that stunned ground troops, or view of hidden scouts, it might make it fair game. In all fairness, I should have been scout with enhanced vision, but then I wouldn't have had an upgraded turret.
     
  16. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Research tree hasn't really been touched since... whenever reflective was moved to the front of the physics tree.

    Times like these are when you miss tall nf rax, it did make for the best wall in the game.
     
  17. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    I most certainly squad artied you 3 times and you began moving when I was calling in the fourth.
     
  18. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    An NF armoury isn't tall enough to block the front, and it's especially not large enough to block squad artillery calls to the front. I know you want to think of a way around it, but there wasn't. You had no way of providing the cover to the front of your CV at that point.

    I had other people in my house so I had to take it easy. Honestly, If I'd been on my own I'd have probably completely lost my shit. I was borderline mouth frothing I was that upset.

    The guy quit after as well. He'd been raging all game calling people on NF out for hacking and stuff, so any guilt I might have felt for raging a guy out of the game very quickly left.
     
  19. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Dude siberian husky is a fucking idiot. Like no joke. Kicked that guy ojt of my clan cause he was a massive dickwad. No idea why you guys picked him. Jpl tag I suppose
     
  20. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I have no idea about picking. I just joined the team that had space. When I asked for 3 grens and a scout, he joined and went scout, so I figured he knew the score even if he had been bitching all round. Either way, he seems fairly unpleasant.
     

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