Standardizing armor hp, weapon damage etc

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Paradox, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Dude you are so out of the loop its not even funny.
    Its not about the gren being able to calculate how fast he can kill the other tank. Its about everyone getting a better grasp how much damage stuff does.
     
  2. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    This is not DOTA or a competitive game like CSGO where headshot with m4 deals 99 damage and with ak it's death. I don't think accuracy matters that much in Empires because it's arcady. And knowing how much damage something deals to something else should be revealed by discovering the game in my opinion. not stats. stats are cool but to a point. small descriptions in research tree something like: absorbant "resistant to kinetic damage, weak against explosives"

    It's not logic to ignore descriptions and have people try the weapons in battlefield to see what is good against what. I doubt they would even notice or understand anything probably because they would know what armor they are fighting against. Finally they would end up asking for a tank set up and what is good and what is not. Also tank tutorials should mention factors that determine damage dealt, speed to damage, resistances, angle, bio timers and idk what else. That's just my opinion we can agree to disagree, I think I made my point on what I think
     
  3. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    As someone who usually likes to calculate every moves and like having as much information as possible before making a decision, I must say, I don't feel this is necessary. Maybe it's because I'm used to the current display of informations. I do believe with enough experience you can get a good grasp of weapon's damages even without numbers.
    Don't get me wrong everyone should know how much each weapons does, but they should also learn that reality is different that theory and there are other factors that are usually ignored, such as accuracy and skills. Which is why Bio MG is better than others, you only have to land 1 in 3 or 4 shots to do damage. Now I'm going off topic...
     
  4. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    you are litterally arguing with thin air at this point, I dont even pretend to see what you are arguing about or who you are arguing with?
     
  5. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    @Paradox Why do you want to know damage anyway?

    Would it help with choosing weapons? because I doubt it will help with predicting how many shots it will take to kill your opponent.

    Currently in empires, you pick a weapon based on its properties. E.g. explodes, does bio, long range.

    You dont pick a weapon based on X shots to kill
     
  6. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    I'm speculating the issue here. Also I'm going to quote you in your first post:

    HP is shown in the vehicle creation menu and it's called thickness or inches, I don't remember but it's there, which brings me to my point that better presentation of stats and description would probably give better results and satisfy your needs. You may want absolute numbers to prove which weapon is better and how much better than others, but for most plebs I believe this is unnecessary.

    In my previous post I basically said that spending developing time to show damage and effectiveness of a weapon in battle before creating proper descriptions is like skipping Step 1 and doing Step 2 and in this case Step 2 being overkill. That's why I said it's not logic. Don't take that the wrong way, I understand it works in DOTA, you are used to it, you appreciate information and therefore would like to see it in Empurrs.
     
  7. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    I dont need to know damage perse, I just want empires stats to be less abstract. I dont think its suppose to be like this, and like this I mean 3 people in this entire community knowing what does how much damage and what is good against what even though Ive played this longer than most that replied in this thread. Makes no sense. I dont get why people are so against streamlining empires. You actually think its good that every armor has some randomly assigned value HP, and that every weapon does a randomly assigned value damage?

    Why not standardize, like ltiterally standardization is so good in so many ways.

    you and ranger both arent getting the point at all.
    Im not looking for, ow now I finally knowhow many hits I need to kill that tank there.
    It's more like ow now I know this is good against that, and ow reactive has double the amount of hp of plain armor? And ow ranged canon is double so strong as standard canon, interesting.


    I could care less about how many shots it takes to kill an enemy ehavy tank with regen.


    Please stop using the same argument about Paradox perse needing to know how fast he can kill a tank, cause its fucking bad
     
  8. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    I just said that a description can provide all the information you need.

    The values given to weapons and armors are the result of all these years the game is being played. They are not abstract, they kinda work. I don't like some armors have values like 62 or 69 etc I'd prefer they were 60,65,70 at least.

    "Why not standardize" "Why not this, why not that" A lot of things could be changed for various reasons. I don't think what you're talking about is currently an issue or hot topic. I might as well say "Why not give all armors the same HP and buff the resistance to make them more easily comparable and to balance the game?"

    You want to fix something that is not broken. @Sgt.Security did update some descriptions recently. I think he was asking about how to formulate descriptions to provide valuable info for every item the other day(?)

    But let's scrap all that. How would you make it work? If in total you have 400hp of compo on each side you have 10 layers of plates assuming the initial standard plate is 40hp. That's 5 plates in the creation menu and 10 on the HUD. It might get confusing and the tank has a lot of HP the HUD would become invasive. How do you suggest dealing with these?
     
  9. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    @Paradox You mean you want this "hidden" info to be more visible?

    Such as what weapon is strong vs what armour?
    And you would like a direct comparison between weapons and armours?

    That could be possible...

    But there are design considerations that impact this...
     
  10. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Ill explain this super easy what I want

    What I want: Patch information to be UNDERSTANDABLE, weapons/armors/technology to be easy to understand.

    How you achieve this? Standardizing the information available. So you can say Weapon A does X to armor A. Instead of what we have right now which is Weapon A does 50/5123 times the squareroot of 231 to armor B.

    I want to be able to EASILY get the information ( tooltips ) from the research tree, and UNDERSTAND it.
     
  11. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    Right, now I get it (I think).

    I agree that the current system does not give enough information about what each thing does. But if we were to give this information. To what extent is appropriate?

    What I'm saying is... Do players need to be explicitly told "ranged cannon is good at long range because it travels fast and has a longer arc than other cannons, but bad against infantry because it has no explosion", "explosive cannon is good vs all targets and deals area damage". Or should they discover this for themselves?

    Providing a specific comparison between armours is not necessarily a good idea either. As armours facilitate a specific playstyle, and comparing them to plain, well... They're all better. Is it required to tell the players how they are all better? Or can they work that out for themselves.


    Each item does have a description... Does that not provide enough info? And if so, perhaps you could give an example of what it should be?
     
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  12. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Honestly if you or anyone can write me some good descriptions, I wouldn't mind to replace them.

    If description change is all you want then it's simple as fuck, I tell ya, it's just copy & paste.

    Although I have to say, we don't have much GUI space for more description, I had to manually shorten Regen's description for it to fit in the limited space.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  13. BlackRedDead

    BlackRedDead Member

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    no, that are things that are quite logic - but what needs to be mentioned is that HE, Bio & Plasma MG are mainly for anti vehicluar combat and suck against infantry!
    things like that, or that HIT rockets can kill yourself without safe distance between you and your target ;-)

    as on an actual occurement in forum chat - that 3phase will stop at overheated state! xD

    gameplay hints like "you can use this artillery shell for some medium range combat with devasting result if mastered" aren't needed ;-)

    post scriptum:
    if some of those are already mentioned in descriptions i'm sorry, have read them several years ago and never again since then - so idk what they say and what not!^^
     
  14. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    ID write up some mock up descriptions if I knew what is good against what. But I have no clue at all
     

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