Standardizing armor hp, weapon damage etc

Right now it's so hard to understand how much damage something does.
Like I've been playing for almost a decade and I dont know how much hp a plate of armor has or how much damage UML does.

I think it would be better if we standardize this.

Let me give you an example, in dota its usefull to know how much damage exactly something deals because you know how much HP someone else exactly has, or yourself.

In empires you see in the vehicle creation menu how much damage your missile does or what ever. But in the actual game you have no idea of the HP of yourself or the other person.

Wouldn't it be better to or have indication of tank hp or change the way you express damage.
Instead of 60 damage it would be 1.5 plates of plain armor

How much hp does reactive have 2.0 plates of plain armor


In the other thread I was talking about making better description
What I would suggest is something like this


UML
( general information)
- 1.5 plates of plane armor per 1/2/3 missiles, 2x multiplier to buildings
- High speed, high rof

Specific information
- Good against absorbant ( 2x ), good against bio ( 1.5)
- Bad against reflective ( 0.5 )

You get the general information if you hover over the research or weapon
And you get specific information if you press alt when hovering over the research or weapon ( like in dota )
The green part is the extra information, and that would contain the specific information

 

Sounds like a good idea. Honestly, nobody really even knows what does what to what or how exactly, even after trawling through the scripts, which no average pubber does. Maybe send a message to Security and D.D. Destroyer and collaborate to set up something that standardises descriptions.

 

If you can't see how many layers of armour a tank has, then how will you know that a nob didn't get a heavy wieht 1 plate on each side or how will armor detection be beneficial without number of plates as indication of health? Will it display the total amount of HP? One could guess the type of armour of that. If for example the tank has 600hp, it's gotta be reactive, or if it's 186 it's 3 absorbant or if it's 310 absorabnt again. the weird numbers indicate what the armor type is or what is not. like 178 isnot compo because compo has 80hp. it could be either abs or regen with their wierd armor health number 62 and 67 for regen? i forgot. anyway you getthe point. So that's a sideeffect, not saying it's bad but it must be considered.

I personally like seeing the number of plates I have. It is just health currently but I like to think it is a possible future feature, like armor penetration or resistance to small calibers or something likethat.

 

I'm not saying remove the ability to see how many plates you have left, I'm saying keep it, but make it so damage gets indicated by how many plates you remove instead of a random number thus STANDARDIZING IT.

You are litterally teling everyone how bad empires is right now without standardization. And I'm proposing standardization I hope you realize this lol

 

Still not sure what you mean sorry. So say we have a default armour with 60hp and then we want a new one you're saying it's hp would be the default +50% +plus pros and cos or something because you feel like the healthpoints given to each armor is too random? ranging from 40 to 160. If that is the case I have thought of this as well. Armour would get their pros and cons in the way tf2 does it with its weapons like *66% smaller clip size* or *25% damage penalty*or *15%more damage*. For armours descriptions would be shortand presented as a list like this:

Standard Issue Armour:
50 Health
15 Weight
5 Res/Plate

Absorbant
+25% Health
25% Resistance to Kinetic Damage
-20% weight

Or that all armours have thesame HP and simply have different pros and cons? (i think that makes it easier to balance weapons toobecause it removes the hp variable from the equation)

Or you mean that the health of the armour is decided by the number of plates you put on (same things as now duh) but that it works in a different way.

 

so.... if one layer is 50hp and you put one plate of armor that has 25 hp what happens then? you spawn with a red/yellow layer of armour?

I suppose this requires more elaboration?

 

Its like using the metric system, everything is expressed in plain armor.
Reactive has 1.5 plain armor strenght
reflective has 1 plain armor strenght but in the detailed description youll see it has resists against blablablblala

dps of he canon isnt 50 damage, its 0.7 plain armor/shot

 

I can see where Paradox is coming from.
I do agree that our numbers are not very conceptual.

If anyone read the description of Enhanced/APCR RPG research, I wrote "increases RPG damage by 23%" instead of "increases RPG damage by 30".

+23% is more conceptual than +30 damage. (When you don't know the exact number)

But then again, we have angle modifier and shit. Our weapons don't really deal "fixed" damage.
We can certainly write "Absorbant reduces more damage as the projectile speed increases, ranging from 11%~42%."

 

Vulcan storm my solution might not be the best, but i dont think theres another system better than standardizing to the most common armor.
Right now its complete shit.

Also we dont need to giveexact modifiers. Just a good ( 100-150% damage ) and great ( 150-200) would be sufficient.

Empires doesnt need to be morr abstract, we gotta streamline it

 

I wouldn't bother with this job entirely if I am to give unprecise range.
If I am to follow that I can just write "Absorbant reduces cannon damage by around 35%, missile damage by 20%" and call it a day.

Misleading/inaccurate description is bad.

 

I still don't fully get it :/ . You are saying that instead of saying this rocket deals 60 damage, say that it destroys 1.5 plates of std armor?

I don't think that's a good idea, first of all because std armor hp can change and because it doesn't apply to real life well enough. currently damage can be affiliated with joules. say a tank shell delivers 45346215 kinetic energy.that's our damage. Now if we use plates to count effectiveness or damage or whatever is like saying "this cannon penetrates 500mm of steel armor". This is information about the weapon and describes one of its capabilities; I don't think it can be as a unit to measure damage. I don't think it's a good standardization because 500mm of steel armor are different from 500mm of wrought armor, composite armor, aluminum, plastic or whatever. So I still don't understand how it would be good at describing... I guess I have misunderstood again..?

Edit: well I had someone explain to me what Paradox is saying.

One plate of armour displayed on any tank equals to 40 health so 1 plate of compo in the creation menu would equal to two plates in the HUD. That's confusing and the HUD would need to be reworked to no end up having 18 plates (6 plates of reactive=720/40=18 plates. 6 plates of capacitive=960/40=24 plate/side but few use capacitive.)

I didn't put much thought into it but the only solution to this is to scrap the "how many layers does he have" and put all hp into one single plate in the hud.

Edit: also keep in mind this thread is for players who play as gren with detect armor upgrade. I play this way more often than not and honestly didnt ever need so much info. even if you can know exactly how much hp the enemy has it won't change a thing. you shoot the weak side until he dies. How much hp he has left is showen by the colour of the layers of armor and thats all you need. Weapons won't deal more damage if you know the health or anything like that, I don't see how it's helpful. You don't know the armor you're fighting against but you can still calculate aprox