Server State Commentary

Discussion in 'General' started by ImSpartacus, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. Tama

    Tama Developer Staff Member Web Developer

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    I was on BE that match. You shouldn't ever grief because (1) as comm of one team, you don't have all the information to determine your odds of winning. I've seen games turn around from rounds, balance-wise, thatn the one ImSpartacus ruined yesterday. In particular, he didn't know that BE wasn't very well organised - most of us were around main or going towards the same enemy position. We did not gain the outer refs until when the NF CV was in the water - by the way, this is also the first time that BE got word that NF considered the game inbalanced, and I immediately switched to NF to help recover the CV.

    The second reason is that many players have told me that they don't care whether they win or lose, and that they've often had a lot of fun even when they had no hope of winning. I am also one of those players, by the way. I talk to a lot of new players, with less than 100 hours of Empires time, and especially these players complain about games that end before they've seen any action, because the commander decided to grief, or a surrender vote went through.

    One more addendum to the match Spartacus mentioned; he claims that a surrender vote was not an option, and yet that's how the round ended. When NF had to rescue the CV, quite a few players came back to the main base to help the dire situation, and consequently NF had lost enough ground that many others did not want to continue. A hopeless match is exactly what the surrender vote is for; but one player deciding that the game is hopeless, with at most half the information required to reach that conclusion, and therefore deciding that everybody will prefer switching maps, is wrong on all counts.

    You are free to leave the game if you don't want to play a hopeless game, and you can certainly do a surrender vote, but ending it immediately ruins the game for the whole enemy team and all of your own team who prefer to play and lose than stare at "Server is switching maps" over and over.

    If you feel the game is inbalanced, the first thing is to say so in all-chat; then players can switch teams (I would have immediately). If that doesn't work, ask admins to rebalance, perhaps giving suggestions for who to switch ("e.g. please move two of our scouts to the enemy team, this is going to be hopeless otherwise"). Finally, reach for surrender vote.

     
  2. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    so why was brenodi intentionally prolonging the game and why isnt this kind of behavior considered griefing aswell? why have they been "not doing well organisation wise"? because it was no challenge to begin with and you guys knew.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
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  3. Tama

    Tama Developer Staff Member Web Developer

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    Flasche, to grief is to intentionally lose the game.

    Like I said, I only knew NF was doing so badly when spectators said their CV was in the water, at which point I switched teams.

    I don't think you understood my post, flasche; to summarise, don't grief because (1) you don't know the full situation, (2) Empires sometimes sees miraculous comebacks, and (3) many people don't care if they are going to lose - they still prefer to play rather than watch a new round develop to the point where they can see some combat, and by giving up you ruin their game. Rather, you should try to enjoy even losing games likewise; or leave, if you're really that salty. Just don't ruin other people's fun, that's the bottom line.
     
  4. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i disagreed (and still do) with spartacus in sinking the cv, infact i was the only one responding to his multiple announcements of sinking the command vehicle, but thats was not my point (neither spartacus')

    as said in post #7, go on about the griefing part and conveniently ignore the rest, there totally are enough players to allow it.
     
  5. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    I'd like to pose a question to this thread.

    Is it griefing if my team is full of, essentially retards, who won't listen and I simply don't want to be com anymore?

    I ask this because of an interesting game on Slaughtered the other night. My team completely failed every order I gave, they failed the rush, they failed to switch off of scout, they failed to hold the line, they failed to build anything and they failed to kill people. I informed my team that I no longer wanted to com, I wanted to hop in a tank to make up for my teams incompetence but I was informed that this would be "Griefing". I knew I couldn't water the com, though I desperately wanted to, but is it REALLY griefing if I just don't want to com because of my team's incompetence/terrible stacks? I was not having fun as com, and if I am not having fun as com I am going to half ass it and no longer care if I get research going right away or care and immediately place buildings that are requested.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
  6. Avatarix

    Avatarix Member

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    Who said that it would be griefing?
    I think it's normal to grab a tank as a comm in one of these chokepoint maps.
    It's really interesting to hear something like that (i guess it was NUBS)
     
  7. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    LT, his reasoning was "You opted in for it"

    Yea I opted in for it, and so did he but I was chosen. I also didn't account for my team being complete retards when it came to following a very simple strategy and just being generally bad at the game when the other team had great players. It was very unfun for me, and at one point I did just abandon the com and hop in a tank because frankly, I didn't give a fuck. I saw we were going to lose, so I got in a tank and had fun while I could.
     
  8. Señor_Awesome

    Señor_Awesome Member

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    Globalist view of griefing: Taking actions that will inevitably result in server population decrease.

    Nationalist view of griefing: Taking actions that will cause my team to lose.
     
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  9. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    if you had an admin on your team you'd be banned cause you intentionally lost the game. You knew that once you left the CV you were definitly putting your odds of winning at zero and basicly deciding yourself the team should lose.

    That's what one of those nubs admins would say if you have one of them on your team when you did it. You actually in the litteral sense of the rules could be banned for it
    But frankly you shouldnt be and admins these day need to use your admin powers for more important stuff than banning vets trying to give the entire server a more enjoyable challenging game faster. Admins should be revoting for maps when escort wins with 26 percent out of 5 map vote, or if someone is purposely rushing tanks into enemy team and feeding ( intentionally losing the game, Im looking at you zander piece of shit ). But hey its easyer to blame a vet.
     
  10. Señor_Awesome

    Señor_Awesome Member

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    LT is an admin.
     
  11. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    I had no idea what we're talking about I just wanted to put that out there.

    Also I got banned by LT once for something similar but I didnt grief at all, he just thought I did cause he has no experience in the game or context. Lt's a fucking jackass first class admin.
     
  12. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Well, I was not having fun in the CV and I didn't want to sit there not having fun screaming at a team of people who didn't listen to do stuff I knew they wouldn't do. I got all necessary research and said "fuck it"
     
  13. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Thats litterally what i said, you could be banned for it cause they have a stick up their ass.
     
  14. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    I Dont understand why anyone would even want to be comm since only comms get banned these days for minor griefing.
    I bet I could go into the serer and grief really fucking badly as infantry and not get banned ever
     
  15. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    admins never rebalance cause they scared to shit of the backlash they get. I've never seen a single active admin doing this consequently.

    If you're an experienced player ( who doesnt suck at the game ) you know when its over when your the comm, you have 100 percent of the information at that point since you have global view of everything. As a normal infantry soldier you dont have all the information as a comm you do.
     
  16. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    First thing first, not much players(admins) can accurately tell how good someone is and how good the team is, as a whole.
    Including myself I only know ~5 players who's even "half-qualified" to do this job.

    Second, there's only ~60 secs before the round starts.
    There's little time to do anything.

    Last, you don't know who's going to comm/squad lead.

    What about rebalance "after" the round has started? That's probably the biggest drama generator in the world.

    Let's not even mention that this empowers admins to control the game, which is ridiculously horrible for the gameplay.
    Imagine when you start a regular Dota2/LoL game and an admin pops out of nowhere and start rebalancing your team, what would you think? (especially if you lose that game later, well, one team has to lose and they'd feel that admin ruined the game for them.)

    So please, don't ask an admin to rebalance, unless there's a stack squad, then admin can and should "disband" them. And yes I think this is also bad for the gameplay, the game should prevent a stack squad to begin with.
    The one and only solution is an automatic balance system. (Doesn't have to be as advanced as "match-making")
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016
  17. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    So you're agreeing with me that admins dont do shit to rebalance cause they afraid of backlash? Cause i cant tell from your post.
     
  18. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    It's not that they "don't".
    They shouldn't(fucking with gameplay) and they can't(most admins aren't experienced enough to know if teams are balanced & how to balance the teams).
     
  19. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    To balance, couldn't a very very simple "rank" system be implemented?
     
  20. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Firstly, of course I greatly appreciate the feedback of all kinds.

    I apologize for potentially miscommunicating. I tried my best to make it as clear as possible that I am in absolutely no way "contesting" or "arguing" with any disciplinary actions described in my post. I am not "denying" that some kind of rule breaking took place. I'm a humble guy and I absolutely do not think that I am entitled to break the rules on a server that someone spends money & time to support. I really tried my darnedest to say that almost immediately at the beginning of my post. As the thread title tries to suggest, this is a commentary on the general state of Empires servers from the perspective of someone who does not play much. I'm just transparent to a fault, so I feel the need to potentially share too much information and I think that confused several people.

    Votes don't work in the situations where they are most needed.

    RTV is entirely useless in a situation where one team is having a good time and another team is struggling.

    Surrender doesn't work when a struggling team isn't coordinated enough for the simplest of inter-team communications. It's a similar situation to trying to FSspace a random noob out of the CV when your team is full of noobs. It's just not happening when your team is 50+% no-names.

    Of course you can disconnect or join spec, but I'd argue that such actions would harm the match greatly. (And that's a great example of something that can really ruin the fun of people on a server, but it's totally allowed.)

    Those are fantastic strategies in a "normal" losing situation (which I'm also unfortunately familiar with).

    But when your team could fit in a single squad, over half of them aren't communicating with you, and you don't have enough refs to even afford a VF (I put my 500 starting res towards a radar, foolish in hind sight), then you don't have many options. A "CV rush" would've literally just been the CV driving towards the enemy (which would also be griefing).

    Again, just want to mention that it'd be fantastic if BE was an aggressive as their playerbase were definitely capable of being. One or two engies and an APC and we would've lost promptly. But that just wasn't happening, either.

    I'm not justifying my actions in any way, but in the moment, I wanted to "end" the game, not "lose" the game. I know those sound retardedly identical in these circumstances, but BE just wasn't pushing anything except an infuriating scout jeep (which would've won the game for BE if it had been an engy APC instead). Recycling buildings would've triggered a loss eventually, but it would've been a prolonged and painful loss due to players derping around uselessly far from enemies while teammates sit around unable to spawn. Overall, I generally don't want to harm the experience of my team when I'm comming. I sorta feel like you're supposed to "look out" for your team when you're the com.
     

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