[chatlog] of useless anti com research complainments

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by BlackRedDead, Aug 21, 2016.

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  1. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah, no. If you wanted another commander then they have to volunteer for it. That's all commanding has amounted to, a volunteer service. A miracle has happened and we have 2 or *gasp* even more? HOLY SHIT, that vote system actually gets used. I'll admit on custom maps the vote time has dwindled down to 60 seconds by the time people start joining in, but I also usually see 10 people at least joining spec first thing. Someone else wanted to command? Join a team instead of spec.

    I agree you are going to get complaints no matter what you do, I think the only 2 people who I have never heard any complaints about were brentor or azk, magical people they are. For the rest of us poor plebs complaints abound, so you do have a point about people needing to learn to deal with complaints. It's just people really should learn a tad more tact, it's usually not just" you shoulda done x instead of y" it's "why the fuck are we getting x?? Y is all we need you *insert insult here*".
     
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  2. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Yes, and voting in someone who is "new" to comming on a server during a high pop time is also completely idiotic. It drives people away when the com can't deal with all of the stimulus going on. This is what weeds people out. Yea he may have been the "only one" to volunteer, but if someone else joins later on, or even at the start and they F S Space who is better, they should get it during a high pop game.

    This game has always been full of insults. I remember I did this exact same thing long ago. First time commanding, I hopped in to try and learn, essentially griefed the team and ALMOST got banned by trickster. Insults were hurled at me, almost banned, but did I complain? No, because this is a game and I'm not four years old. If you are a com, and someone does say "You should get X instead of Y", like in BRD's example, and then he continues to refuse to even acknowledge it or even get it, then yes that does warrant some sort of rage. I think they were well within the means to get angry because BRD failed to acknowledge what the team needed to win and kept doing his idiotic research path.
     
  3. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    @Avatarix @Donald Trump @Lightning @NekoBaron

    Vets are supposed to teach the new players and luckily the RedDead guy is capable of learning through suggestions because he speaks English. It's not the "dog eat dog". go away trump this is not the business world. You just sit there saying plasma is shit and to cut it short, criticizing a newbie. Well, do you think that's fine? I could go on about how wrong that is in so many ways for quite some time.

    Low pop games are good a chance to help new players. I don't know why you have all grown such a huge vet ego lately, but let me remind you, this is a game. A game that never got over 100 people at the same time. So calm your tits, and help others. Supporting Empires also means taking care of the community which noobs are also part of. The game is not supposed to be played by veteran mlg players.

    It is a game and we must have fun. Winning feels nice but it's not fun itself. You may choose to go on a killing spree against noobs and win in 10 minutes,or you can choose to do the right thing and help them out. I do not like egoistic players and sadly egoism is something I see so often these days. I see three vets bitching, griefing and ragequiting in a low pop map. Nice. Such quality. Nobody explaining anything to poor little RedDead. I'm not trying to offend you, but you have to fix that (your behaviour). Perhaps, one of the vets could have commanded from start instead of staying in spec and putting the blame on a new player afterwards. So, do that next time, even if you don't want to. As vets, you have more responsibility. When nobody is comming, take the CV

    Just because flaming has always been in empires does not mean it's right. Go on and smash your screen if you want, but harassing people in any way is not nice. For some reason people think it's fine as long as it is on the interwebz because their actions have no consequences.


    @BlackRedDead This thread should not be on this forum.
    You can complain on the server's Steam group page
     
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  4. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    dt the operative word here is EXCESSIVE. you totally missed the mark.
    and everything Ranger said is right on the mark.
     
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  5. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    It's usually a better idea to explain why something is a good idea, or a bad one. I very rarely hear anyone actually explain things, it's just "do this". Like this hemg example, people should explain it's pretty much adding another ranged cannon on a tank, it is strong as can be. I can see maybe not getting it if you went physics, but there isn't much reason to not grab it at some point if you are in chemistry. I didn't read it too carefully, the long breakups from BRD explaining things kinda killed my interest, but I don't really remember anyone saying why he should get hemg. For a lot of his research it wasn't bad honestly, at least the beginning. Sure there's questionable things like getting meds before weapons, or getting arty at such a low pop, but most of it wasn't anything that says gg we lose.

    Actually now that I think about it JGF may be the only person bothering to say the why people should do things.
     
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  6. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    Well, I personally don't do that but rushing meds with gas and compo and std cannon is not that bad. I'm sure he didn't do it for the reasons a vet would do it but it doesn't matter.
     
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  7. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    And another apologist comes forward!

    I help new players all the time, but if they are incapable or simply do not listen it is a complete waste of their time and my time to try and help. In this instance, as seen in BRD's chat, they kept telling him to get HEMG. Finally, when he didn't get it they started saying he was griefing, then they started saying mean things because BRD failed to listen and continued on his research path that is a complete fail.

    Low pop games ARE good for new players, and whenever I play I tell them how to play and explain game mechanics. In fact, I am one of the more helpful vets and many new people I think would agree. I also give orders in a funny way, a very sarcastic way that gets the point across that everyone has a good time even when we lose (Which never happens) or when I'm barking out orders. New people drive this game, without them we wouldn't have this game currently, I agree with this!

    Winning keeps people. Winning is fun. While it isn't everything, when a game drags on and on and is a loss from step one, it is really demoralizing and drives people away from the game. Why even bother playing if we want to get the "participation trophy" instead of getting "You are victorious"? And it's not egoistic players in this case that made BRD complain, it is the fact that BRD did not listen, and continued to fail to listen and communicate what he was doing, not once but multiple times. THIS drives people away from the game, noob coms drive people away from the game when you fail to listen (NOTE: I am basing this all off the chat logs as I was not there).

    I am basing this discussion off of this line here. Clerk is a fairly calm person, I rarely see him complain except in this instance right here. "being shiut" isn't a bad slur, nor is it "excessive" in any case. Fuck, if that's excessive ban me now because I have said FAR worse. Then he goes on to say "lol" at being voted out, not even addressing the issue at hand.

    He goes on to brag about how good he is with research, but if he was even close to a good com he would know Plasma is completely unviable and HEMG is the most OP MG in the game. He added this in here, which is not only a lie, but to make himself look good to garner more sympathy from you all.

    In fact, this was a grief. Look at this, he knows what is best, yet did not want to get it because he personally doesn't like it. It doesn't matter if you "don't like it" it matters what is the best research to victory.

    Here, again, he explains how he griefed. Granted, it wasn't the best decision for lightning and neko to do what they did but it is far from appalling. Game sounds like it was over anyway.

    This is a problem, he gets meds before at least 1 weapon. This is an immediate red flag for most vets to say "We seriously got meds before we had a weapon? Who the hell is the com?" and then usually an F S space ensues because at this point they are proven to be unreliable and not knowing standard research. This happened here.

    On top of this, he says it is the teams fault for losing tanks. Well, considering he got arty (Which is a bad idea but the team asked for it), and then a bunch of stupid weapons (2 cannons instead of an MG?) it cost the team some tanks probably. I don't doubt some were lost in stupid mistakes by other noobs, but he put the blame on the team now. In fact, he LOCKED the VF. The number 1 way to PISS OFF a large majority of people, and we should all know this as coms have done it to each and everyone of us. Deciphering what he said, my take on it is he wanted people to use their squad points on tanks to save the team wages... which doesn't happen late game with meds and heavies rolling around so this was an immediate loss right here. In fact, this is borderline grief in my book and I would have totally bitched him out and started an F S space vote.

    Getting it in the wrong order can severely fuck a team up. This is a very very valid complaint. In fact, he says "I GOT ALL THIS! YOU SHOULD HAVE TOLD ME WHAT YOU WANTED!" but in fact, they did. They wanted HEMG much earlier and he STILL hasn't gotten it. In fact, they don't even have an MG and I would say an MG for BE is more essential than an ML (arguable for Bio's sake). He then defends getting coolant, an idiotic choice for 40 minutes into the game when you are down and your team has been demanding a weapon that could ACTUALLY turn the tide of battle. Instead, he gets tracking systems claiming THAT can turn the tide of battle, yet this is BE we are talking about, not NF so again... useless.

    On top of this, he even says he has no mic and has trouble listening, more cause for rage to begin.

    He also goes on saying "I should have built defense lines" but those are, usually, totally organic and created by the players themselves as needed. A com who locked the VF, spent money on defense and didn't get research that was requested NUMEROUS times I would call grief. I would bitch at him as well, especially if I saw some of the research paths he went down/opened up.

    Basically, I think you guys are coddling him instead of showing him the harsh reality of commanding. You will get bitched at, take it like a man.
     
  8. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    I wasn't commenting on whether the research choices he made were good or bad. My point was that it's an unimportant game and a vet should know better!

    The illusion of possessing knowledge is a threat to everyone, not only newbs. In this case, he thought he knew. Oh well.

    Also, a commander doesn't research what his team wants; he chooses the strategy and the team must comply. Also#2, a commander never changes strategy when he has already picked one. It doesn't work out in this case because obviously BlackRed cannot be regarded as a commander ok.
     
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  9. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    It might be an unimportant game, but why do I want second place when I could get first? Why do I want a participation trophy instead of the real trophy?

    He thought he knew? Dude, he damn well was saying people's suggestions were stupid because his ideas were better. That isn't knowing, that is being arrogant.

    Yes, and this commander didn't even have a decent strategy in the first place. I can't even tell what it was considering all of the stuff he researched with no purpose/noplan. In fact, he got artillery besides not wanting it, then didn't get his upgraded turrets for better tank weapons which he got bitched at for because that late in the game it is useless.
     
  10. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    DT: I didn't include clerk in my post you keep misreading my points.
    Whether you agree or not excessive complaining is going to get someone silenced, its that simple. We tolerated it long enough and it ruins the game, distracts players and just makes the atmosphere on the server toxic.
     
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  11. NekoBaron

    NekoBaron Member

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    I like that the pires chatbot on nubs is now randomly saying toxic things because it happens so often, I see it trying to use !surrender at times. :p
     
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  12. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    Because you respect the others' inferiority and lack of knowledge and you are not a raging egoist. If you really want to win, you have to make sure that an experienced commander gets in the CV as you have a say in that (Commander vote).

    No one else was willing to comm I suppose and that's ok.
     
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  13. NekoBaron

    NekoBaron Member

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    We try give new players a chance to comm, they end up ruining the match and we cant get enough players to understand how to f s space to even get a new comm in time.
     
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  14. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Everyone has tolerated it since the inception of Empires. Now you want to silence one of the key factors of Empires, one of the key factors that prevents noobs from dealing with the stress of commander and constantly ruining games? Ban me now because I won't stay silent when there is an absolute retard in the com vehicle who won't listen. This is idiotic logic that vets cant get angry at a new person who isn't listening. 99% of the com's job is listening and communicating and you are removing this.

    In fact, continue down this path and you will have the exact opposite of what we have now, a total lack of commanders, there will be too many idiot ones.

    Or, I could try helping said person learn how to com, but then they become a total twat and don't listen. How does it make me an egoist because I am playing a game to win? I don't want the participation trophy, and I'm sorry if you do but I enjoy winning and trying to win. I do not enjoy being stuck on a team with a commander who fails to listen, can't communicate, and is generally just too stupid to fill the role.

    Sometimes I enjoy playing as infantry or in vehicles, this doesn't mean I want there to be a retarded-new commander. In fact, most the time when I F S space a com, I take over. I just think it's stupid how you are blaming all of us vets for this problem when it is the problem of the person who got in com and then also fails to communicate/listen.


    If we are going to start allowing whining and complaining on this forum about something mean someone said I would like to report Mr.X for calling me retarded, Spartacus for insulting my commanding style, Neko for saying I constantly stack, Kermit for one time saying I wasn't good, JK one time for making fun of my name being Donald Trump so no one should vote for me, Spike for saying I am a "retard" commander, among many others.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
  15. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    .................enjoy
     
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  16. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    I'm literally the definition of never surrendering no matter what even when everyone is spamming !surrender. Obviously you go for the win, but if you lose for whatever reason, take it easy. I said egoism because you are describing victory at whatever cost (possibly expense of others, teammates) which is not cool.

    It's like blaming a child for having no opinion in politics.

    I say again you cannot blame people for being noobs. He is in the processing of learning. Everyone makes mistakes. Not listening to suggestions at critical moment is a mistake, a choice but a mistake. It was intentional but not evil griefing. There is no real restriction on who can command, but only "should" and "must", words of veterans. It was a low population game and he did his best, he had every right to stay in command since the team was not able to vote him out noobs or not. As for having him kicked out... I often ask myself if I should kick the noob commander in my team out of the CV to take over. I only do it when they do not reply to my messages. That seems fair to me.

    This thread has no place in this forum because he's complaining about his team's reaction to his bad commanding.

    Of course, you are allowed to complain about people's behaviour if it's constantly hostile towards you or others, but I believe this forum is not the place to do it.

    To my eyes, this particular BlackRed's thread is the experience many newbies get from veteran players and it's bad.
     
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  17. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    I am describing the main goal of everyone who plays this game, INCLUDING THE NOOBS. Noobs want to win, they aren't going to sit there and go "Oh, its just a game" they WANT to win. The game is ALL that much more satisfying when you win, especially to noobs. Spending an hour of your life sitting here playing this game only to be forced to go "Oh well, it was a boring siege where I kept dying, but its a game" is not fun.

    I can blame them, if they fail to listen. Again, I respect and help noobs who listen. In fact, I just helped Lobsterman right now learn how to com. He won the game after I helped him with research and building placements and shit, and was grateful for my help. However, if a noob, such as BRD gets into the com and fails to listen AND communicate, that is an IMMEDIATE red flag which SHOULD result in F S Space or kicking of Com. BRD failed to have a coherent strategy, failed to have any plan setup to win the game which is a grief as commander. Griefing is the act of losing intentionally, either by bad research or giving the enemy the com.

    I agree, get this thread out. Hes complaining about his team's reaction, a standard reaction by vets who want to win and are stuck with someone who doesn't communicate and fails to listen. This is the WORST combination of things you can get, especially when he fails to listen, fails to communicate AND has terrible research. If I ever see a com going for Plasma I immediately think "They just think it sounds cool, fuck were going to lose"

    Agreed, this forum is not the place to do it. Should be handled by the staff of the server, but it was brought here so the item is up for discussion. He shouldn't post this stuff because to me and many others it seems like whining and complaining that someone hurt his feelings.

    Also, I don't think most newbies get this from veterans, the only time I see noobies getting yelled at is when they fail to listen and continually play scout rather than doing something to help the team. In which case, sometimes yelling and bitching gets their attention allowing you to ACTUALLY communicate with them.
     
  18. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    I just want a nuke to be dropped on this thread and most people posting in it.
    Its not even worthy of being put in the blackhole.
    This gem however i will treasure as a paramount achievement in making yourself sound dumb in the very first sentence in a ridiculously long post.
     
  19. SLAB

    SLAB Member

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    The thread does deserve to get nuked, simply because what it is is advocating for is the start to a long and very much dangerous slippery slope of "BAN/MUTE/GAG/KICK THIS PERSON FOR DISAGREEING WITH ME, VOCALIZING THEIR JUDGEMENT OF MY CAPABILITIES!" This leads to a greater amount of even lower quality noobs than what we have now, who we can't call on their low quality skills and tell them to fix it, because then we get communications-banned by way of mute/gag or actually removed from the game for daring to criticize with any sort of harshness., resulting in the game becoming an RTS/FPS hybrid-themed hugbox.

    T. Someone whose only value is not entirely sucking on the infantry front and fails horribly at comm, with less than 10 hours in-game.
     
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  20. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Oh look, even noobs agree with my side... Am I sensing the opposition has just been BTFO?
     
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