Concept: NF Tank Destroyer

Discussion in 'Art' started by VulcanStorm, May 29, 2016.

  1. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i wonder how the models ended up like they are now. at first i thought "was this made in hammer?" but then i think i remember seeing highpolies of some of those tanks.
    there are "real" hard edges (split verts) not only baked in the normal map. there is geometry inside the hull you cant possibly see - all the tanks are like theyd be made out of boxes stuck together.
    what i mean is, there is no requirement to have a "closed" model - unless for collision ofc, but its because of the "must be convex" constraint ...

    ... also i doubt you save up geometry this way. sure a box simply stuck into another uses less verts/tris than it would need to extrude the same shape out the box. BUT if you do hard edges with geometry, you end up with only disconnected faces for the boxes anyway and it uses up more verts/tris in the end (not talking about useless inside faces)
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  2. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    I remember vaguely the plan was to have tanks be modular model blocks and depending on what engine you select or what gun you put on the tank the model block corresponding to that thing changes to the corresponding visually different model. This also implied it needed some internal geometry to prevent looking through micro fractures and seeing a hollow tank.
     
  3. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    micro fractures? and no, it doesnt really make sense with modular models in mind either, tho its a good guess.
    its just a shitload of useless vertices and faces.

    by simply removing double vertices you remove almost 2.5k vertices on the nf med. considering its a total of around 5.3k thats almost halfed.
    now i know for performance the amount of faces is a lot more imporatant than vertices, yet ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  4. Caelo

    Caelo Member

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    Visible faces as they need to go through the fragment/pixel shader, and most likely per 'pixel' lighting is applied. For non-visible faces (idk, if the source engine supports this?) this is not an issue as they won't eat up your gpu's time as much if done right.
     
  5. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    So... I've realised that my model isn't good enough to go in game yet... It still needs a crap ton more detail.

    New Tracks!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The ambient occlusion is a bit off. But what do you guys think to the tracks?
     
  6. Varbles

    Varbles Simply Maptastic. Staff Member

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    A very good addition, it looks quite plausible too. But, since the tracks are going to be 2D (that's the only way they'll be animated) and flush with the hull, you should minimize the gaps in the linkage.
     
  7. Lightning

    Lightning Member

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    yeah, you can keep them aswell, just make them have no physics (still animate them if possible), and the actual track that moves the tank will be below
     
  8. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Every time I say "Looks great" you come out with something better. So, with that being said, I refuse to comment on this because you will somehow manage to make it better.

    Also, when is the discussion going to come back up on what to do for it's weapons/armor?
     
  9. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    Whenever you guys want to. It may have stagnated to the point where we were happy with the proposed stats.
     
  10. Caelo

    Caelo Member

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    I'd remove the ladder btw and add a notch at the back between the two exhausts to make a makshift ladder. That way people won't think you can actually move up on the ladder in-game. Also it makes more sense as IRL you basically climb tanks from either the back or the front, because of the slant which makes it just a tad easier. Besides, the ladder is a weak point as it catches shells and missiles. Normally you want the surfaces as flat as possible or with an angle that is as 'shallow' as possible.

    Not to say it needs to be totally realistic, because looks are more important, but if you add something that could be functional you better make it functional as well and I somehow doubt ladders on tanks will ever be in the game.
     
  11. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i think you should fix that AO errors vulcan, this probably also shows up on a normal map.
    it might really just be the viewport ao being sketchy, but looks like those surfaces are not planar.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
  12. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    Those tracks are not compatible with how empiresmod does 'tracks', tracks in empod are just rolling textures.

    You could add more relief to the side through for example a scouting turret mounted in the side, something like the things the heavy has sticking out the side but with view ports instead of cannon mounts.
     
  13. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Believe me, he is keenly aware of that fact, we are already telling him in the art hipchat. We are currently teaching him a high poly workflow where those tracks will eventually end up being used to bake new tread textures.
     
  14. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    I don't believe you, i think you are lying and this is all a ploy to depose the deists
     
  15. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    "The blackholians will depose the deeists!" - A person with strong autism.

    So, can we restart on that thread, about the stats for the TD? So they have some idea about what the community wants.
     
  16. Varbles

    Varbles Simply Maptastic. Staff Member

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    I found a useful way to add lots of rivets quite easily, this could be applied to other types of detail too:
    http://imgur.com/a/ZcFgK
     
  17. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    2 hit lights, 3 hit meds, 4 hit heavies, fire once every 10 seconds high speed as possible and as little arc as possible.

    Its own hull counts as a light in this sceme, so 2 hits kills the batman.



    this gives the lights a clear economic advantage against these guys, combined with their speed they become the natural enemy. Slow fire speed, hard to aim but high damage makes them better at directional sniping and ambush instead of head on face to face battles.

    ofc up to balance, but i feel this is a good start.
     
  18. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    because thats how empires works

    sounds fun as fuck. im also sure it will be a blast to stay alive 40seconds to kill a heavy.
    in 40seconds a heavy crosses the whole map.
     
  19. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    There are gonna be more than one weapons and probably the effectiveness should change with every armour too. Deflective will have a serious advantage over kinetic TD or stuff like that.
     
  20. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Might I remind you guys that there already is a thread for the game mechanics behind the TD concept? Please post there and keep this thread on topic about the model.
     

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