Star Citizen: Organization!

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by =PVCS) Cpatton, Dec 30, 2014.

  1. =PVCS) Cpatton

    =PVCS) Cpatton Member

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    I agree with Z100000M. And you'll probably be surprised Ikalx. I don't really know why you don't think you can count on us, and I don't really think that's fair. HSM and Hamster even led some ridiculous group of players in Shores of Hazeron to build some ungodly empire. I'm most concerned about your pacifism though: if you don't have an enemy, players become complacent. You'll usually find a knife in your back at that point. So it's always good to have a goal and an enemy, IMO, so people have something to work towards and a sense of accomplishment and orientation. Anyways can you tell me what you meant by that? I'm a little offended, tbh, cause the only thing you seemed to imply was that BSID mindsets are not reliable.

    The clan stuff was really what we were tying to get away from, honestly. But you bring up a good point, we have different play styles. There are very competitive players, and there are casual players, and we have quite a few who are somewhere in between. That's why I mentioned having lots of smaller groups in my last post, and it's something we mentioned on the brenodia forums, and in the steam group as well.

    People play differently, and prefer different company, and that's why we intend to have different companies. Above all we want people to feel comfortable and important in their game experience, this isn't about talking trash.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
  2. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    I don't get how an indexed list (tabs) is easier to manage than a tree (bookmarks)

    Concerning clans: I myself rather like to play as a mercenary in that case. That way I can decide myself where and when I invest time to commit to something, rather than being obligated to do so by my clan/org.
     
  3. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    so how many money have you guys spent on ship so far?
     
  4. =PVCS) Cpatton

    =PVCS) Cpatton Member

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    ^ Another reason to keep things in smaller groups. However, I think a *lot* of us are like that, that's why we wrote the org in game like a mercenary group. Because that's exactly how I imagine 90% of us want to play.

    I spent a few hundred <.< I really liked the old games Chris Roberts made, I see so much of that here, and I had money to spend.

    But, I plan on giving one of my ships to someone else when they join, because I can't pilot them all at once.

    I reposted something on the Brenodia forums: "I want people I can count on, and I want to try to keep the drama away from them and those that just want to play, and want to have fun. A lot of those people were there for Empires, Planetside, Counter Strike and others. I’d like to play with you again, and I hope to see familiar names all around when the Beta is over. So feel free to tell me what you want to see, what you want to be, and I’ll do my best to make that happen."

    Ikalx- I see a lot of those same words in what you said earlier, and It would be really cool if you elaborated a little on what you were looking for, as well as what you don’t want to see. Personally, the feeling isn’t mutual: I enjoyed playing with you, and I’m sorry if you didn’t feel the same way.

    I’m trying to create that space where reliable people, like you, have a comfortable group that they like to play with and can count on, and that want to work together towards some goal. So I guess, what I want to do is help do that for all of us, get us into groups. I understand if that means you don’t want to play with me, but I’m sure you don’t hang around here because you don’t like other people in empires, and if our groups can work loosely together or in the same part of the universe in game, I think that would be fantastic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
  5. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Concerning what I have spent:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    250 bucks for a ship? Is it made of gold and breasts?
     
  7. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    It is a pretty huge corvette/dropship for marines with 4 turrets and 2 rocket launchers. It also includes LTI (lifetime insurance), which means I'll never have to pay for getting it replaced, should it be damaged or destroyed.

    It also was the winner of the community contest to create a ship.
     
  8. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Eh, maybe it's just a remnant of how things used to be. To be honest, lots of people are douchey in Empires or the internet and they often see that as separate from the rest of life, but I'm not really like that. This sort of "we can shit on whoever we like and lol it doesn't matter" attitude is really quite prevalent online and I don't like it.

    People can't be relied upon because in a moral vacuum they'll just do spiteful things. They have no real sense of decency or they'll ignore it just because they're feeling ticked off. Every person you've ever trolled, every game you've ever thrown, every secret identify you've ever assumed so that you could sabotage a game, every game you've griefed, these things all mean something.

    They're part of a person, and indicative of their nature. To me it just says, given the option, you'd do what you want, regardless of others. And that's very prevalent in the world now, because people don't value others and regard them as trash.

    So while I might respect some people's abilities, might enjoy playing with them occasionally or talking to them, the reality is I just don't trust a lot of you. When it comes down to it, you might help others out. Might. But if a battle's over, if you were really in a dire situation in life, I couldn't trust that. And if you lost a game, a ship, whatever, I know it's very likely you'd just lose it.

    People try to justify a lot of things by saying they have to win, they have to be the best, and that others just have a different mindset. The truth is it's a weakness. You can't bear to lose. You won't just pick yourselves up again and do better, be more determined, instead of screaming at everyone and railing against everything.

    But you know, the human race didn't get this far by doing that. It's a testament to the times that at every little thing that goes wrong people go nuts. In a time when we have more entertainment than probably the entire history of mankind put together, people now get angry over it. Curse each other over it. Wish other people's deaths over it. Scream at people for being not quite good enough, or fast enough, or practised enough.

    Our forebears weathered starvation, disease, war and strife, misery and death. And yet now we cry over the figment of it, and try to spread that misery around, instead of enjoying what we have and the simple act of playing a damn game.

    -

    I'm sorry if that offends you. I'm sorry because it probably is offensive. But it saddens me more that things are like that, and I can only see it as a simple truth. I saw your pm and yeah, BSID were always reliable, were always great at the game. How many were good people? Beerdude comes to mind. Some others maybe.

    The point is...when you tell someone to go hang themselves online. When you abuse them and tell them they should die, or shouldn't play, or are too dumb to be alive. It means something.

    That's not a message to the clan, the clan doesn't matter, that's to everyone personally. And people who do that, who grief, who abuse, who are spiteful and petty, who throw tantrums and scream at everyone. I just don't trust you. I can't. Your nature speaks louder than your words that you just don't give a shit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
  9. TheLiberalElitist

    TheLiberalElitist Member

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    that's deep
     
  10. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    I have to agree with you on many points there Ikalx. I can't say I wouldn't and haven't cursed at other people while playing games, but mostly to myself and not in their faces.
     
  11. =PVCS) Cpatton

    =PVCS) Cpatton Member

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    O.o

    ... I don’t think you can translate some of the things you are trying to translate: IRL vs. in game isn’t represented, nor is this “good person bad person”… A lot of people who were terrible to me in Empires were really decent to me in other games, or were nice people to meet. I think you are passing a really heavy, heavy judgment on people.

    However I understand and share your thoughts on being abusive in game. Empires, for me was an extension of the Source community, the CSS community, and I grew up in that community getting shit talked, so I talked shit, and people continued to do the same back. Empires was particularly bad in that department sometimes, and I let it affect me, because it didn’t seem like anyone actually cared to be decent at times, especially early on. I hear you, I guess I just was able to numb myself to it and go with what I was taught. I don’t remember ever saying anything along the lines of telling people to off themselves in real life but, I’ve probably said some mean things. I think f1r3w4rr10r captures the sentiment:
    That’s not how I was in Planetside, or Mechwarrior Online, or Guild Wars, or any other games where organization was key, you can’t switch teams, you are properly rewarded for working together and it is obvious even to the new players, people seemed to be respectful in groups; all these things Empires struggled to make part of the game, mostly because much of this is missing from all Source games. Mechwarrior was fun, I got to know people who were nice, helpful, and we tried to be even more respectful in game to other teams than we were to eachother. I have no doubt there is going to be a heck of a lot of that helpful mentality in Star Citizen.

    Uhh… Personally, I never passed easy judgment on people for how they played here, because I felt it wouldn’t be fair. I certainly didn’t judge anyone as a person, except those I met in real life. I guess that must not be true for you, and for what it’s worth I’m sorry for the part I played in souring your experience.

    Maybe what I think is most relevant, at least to how people play (which is the only thing I think you can really judge from a game), is that you don’t trust us to be there to count on in game, or trust that we would stay if we lost a ship, or something. With ships and persistent economy, the scale of which is so far on the other end from the extremely fleeting games of Empires, I’m pretty sure no one is going to be as flippant as they were here. To me that’s obvious, it’s an entirely different scale. I also know everyone has done some growing up, both online and in real life. I've also seen it. I watched Headshotmaster of all people build massive persistent cities, economies, and ships in shores of hazeron, and willingly share all of that with members of the empires community who were interested in playing.

    I won’t hold any grudges.

    But I acknowledge your sentiment, and respect your position. If you’ve already judged me in such a light I don’t think there is anything else I can do except apologize and move on. Good luck in the future, maybe if I see you in the ‘verse I’ll change your mind.

    I wish it were different, but I can't bring myself to be so harsh, on most everyone here.

    EDIT: You know what, I really enjoyed empires. A lot of smack talking and assholes over the mic, but there have been downright great games, good fun, hilarious tactics, and frustrating griefs.
    I'm grateful for those games. I'm happy I spent that time playing with most of the community, whether they were new, or vets, really good or just trying to learn. New Source mods are usually treated horribly by the communities that adopt them, and there is rampant abuse all the time. Empires was fun to play in spite of that, and comradery was found game after game, sometimes with people who were terribly frustrating the game before. So thanks, for playing this wonderful game with me. Stay classy, Empires.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
  12. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    How much do I need to fork out to "get in" the game?
     
  13. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Well I wasn't really around back when BSID was still active in any way. So I can't really speak from first hand experience. What I stated was just an overall experience with some people.

    So currently my opinion towards you is pretty neutral as of now, since I only see what other people say of you. So yeah I'll decide when the game really starts to have something you can do as an org. (multi-crew ships anyone?)
     
  14. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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  15. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Certainly beats Elite in this respect, at least right now...
     
  16. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Actually I just saw that that one was only available in a limited amount. So the cheapest package is $35.
     
  17. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    for 3 month

    and then?
     
  18. =PVCS) Cpatton

    =PVCS) Cpatton Member

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    You were around f1r3w4rr10r, or at least for my BSID. I know because I played with you, and you were just getting started but you listened and were helpful, and thats really the most important things there were in an Empires game.

    You also weren't around for all the griefing in beta, Mr. Die, the terrible glitches, and the full rage of the source community when the game was broken, turrets on walls and ceilings, vehicles and players out of the maps on most every map...

    --Anyways, Destroyer you can get whatever you want, but the Beta is all about paying to support the game, really. If you want to save money, wait for the game to actually come out. Right now, you can buy these sweet packages, but they are pricey specifically so people can show support to the developers, and I think they really have earned it. If you get one of the small packages ($50 or less) you probably are getting a better deal than you would at release. However the rest of the packages are going to be so much cheaper at release I think.

    Flasche, do you mean if you buy a package do you still get the full game? Because yes, you do. You get beta access, and then you keep it for the full game.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
  19. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    That is the insurance. Basically it's close to the EVE Online model. If your ship gets destroyed in the persistent universe, and you still got insurance, you get most of your stuff replaced. In case you don't have one, you'll probably be stuck on a planet and be limited to be hired by other people to work for them, until you can get yourself another ship.
    As far as I know, you will be able to buy insurances with either real money or in-game money.

    Also most packages include the single player game in it's complete form.

    That might have been quite a while ago, when I was still in z4g. I took quite a long break from Empires after that.
     
  20. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    so how affordable is insurance in ingame currency, how much gametime one would need to invest? and how much does it cost in real cash? aside of insurance theres no other monthly fee or did i miss something?

    i mean i have no issues with monthly fees for mmos, but i find several hundred euros for ships ill inevitably lose sooner or later a "bit" over the top. also insurance is on a per ship basis if i got that correctly - idk if it doesnt get a lot of money rather soon.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014

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