The shitty taste in maps of players

Discussion in 'General' started by Freaknovich, Jul 13, 2014.

  1. Freaknovich

    Freaknovich Member

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    It seems like every time I try to play these days, people vote only for money, escort, district and other shit-tastic crap that gets annoying very fast. No one ever wants to play good maps like midbridge, downfall, chain, and good custom maps. As a result, the senior players who want to play decent maps are left in the minority. For example, Herbie, a returning player quit yesterday because he was forced to play money with a population of 30~. He might eventually end up quitting the game again because of this. This may just be one player, but I also saw the server population rapidly decrease because people are simply tired of playing the same 3 maps every single time. Though I see admins try to do votes to change nextmap, the selections on those votes usually cater to that same majority, and a lot of the time, the original nextmap is selected anyways.

    There is no real solution to this problem, since democracy seems to the answer to everything. Also a dictatorship of pre-selected maps will be biased as fuck. So what say you Emp-tards, are you pissed off at this situation as well?

    inb4 commandergrad. I'm not here to advertise or even discuss my map, I am here to discuss why most players only want to play the same 3-5 maps every single day.

    inb4 OP can't inb4.
     
  2. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Every single time when I am in the server and I see the map changes into some craptastic map that will fuck server pop up I tell admins this. Candles has heard me plenty of time screaming for a map change same with JGF and just general screaming inchat that if an admin is online they should say fuck democracy and change it to a non bad map.

    And every single fucking time the admins are a piece of fucking shit pussy cunt face that refuse to change the map because people voted they want to play money. Good job 34 percent of the people voted for money so we should play money. Ok.

    Admins are just fucking shit and dont have the balls to change the map.

    Fuck voting fuck everything, get active admins or even fuck admins just get active map switchers or some shit.
     
  3. Varbles

    Varbles Simply Maptastic. Staff Member

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    The applicable rule is: the sum intelligence of the group is constant while the group may get bigger.

    But either way, people like maps where they're very familiar with what to do, have lots of memories of fun games or even just lots of memories at all, where they have a handle on every way the game could play out, win or lose. The big shame of empires is that there are so many maps with great complexities and beautiful scenery which get passed up in favor of simple, very directive maps virtually every time. This isn't new at all and distasteful as it may be mappers should pick up the fact that complex is interesting but simple is popular.
     
  4. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    I vote not to bite
     
  5. BigTeef

    BigTeef Bootleg Headshot master

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    Everytime I get an urge to play.

    It's fucking escort.

    Every single goddamn time.
     
  6. Freaknovich

    Freaknovich Member

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    Unfortunately, it is not that simple, Paradox. Admins will be given flak whatever it is they do. If they change the map to something decent, the money lovers will complain, if they don't the money haters will complain. Though I think it might be necessary to do the map change anyways, just to condition the majority to appreciate other maps and to get them out of there comfort level. The problem is, as I can understand, admins would prefer fewer people bitching at them, so they just leave the monies and escorts the way they are. It also doesn't help that the distribution of admin powers on viper is rather conservative and unpredictable.
     
  7. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    Every time I join up into a dustorm game it's ending and the map changes to slaughtered or bootybay. Those 2 maps are trash and that's all people want to play.
     
  8. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Would be better if not every map was voted, but that rtv could be initiated to change the next map if it was bad. Or just have the vote every 3 maps.

    It's money way too often. That's why I get sad at people basically remaking a similar money each time. The roof idea was interesting but it just means mortars in the face. Money is a basic map. You can change it with any idea whenever you want... but then I guess I always saw it as a training map anyway.
     
  9. Reznov

    Reznov Member

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    You know, if we had decent maps which are made for 5-20 players we wouldn't have to constantly play emp_money, emp_escort and emp_district402. Remember emp_2islands, emp_research, emp_palmbay, emp_snowstorm, emp_territory and emp_arid? Now I ain't saying those are good for small population but I haven't seen those been voted for a looong time although we used to play those back in the old days.

    Also this "UMC Plugin" is fucking disgusting. After 2-3 maps the SAME map appears on top of the list. Neither does it help that you can't nominate maps anymore after the mapvote in the beginning of the round, so I can't make decent mapvotes happen during the round. Of course I could make my own votes by listing maps I know which are decent, but I can't be sure which maps have been played before.

    Another problem I have is that money appears THREE times. emp_money, emp_money_redux_a1 and emp_money_cl. This doesn't help the fact that money is been played too often.

    These are just my opinions.
     
  10. BigTeef

    BigTeef Bootleg Headshot master

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    Make a dedicated map rotation and fuck the players.
     
  11. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Did he actually tell you this personally?

    Even so, every single map got its lovers & haters.
    A lot of people are pretty silent, they don't yell out their opinions.

    Though not equally, but I love every maps.
     
  12. Comand'zorz' Asz

    Comand'zorz' Asz Member

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    that is are h idea:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  13. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I don't think there's an issue with these maps being bad. They aren't.

    But they're horrendously overplayed and it just totally ruins them. Like seriously, I love Escort. But I want to play it once in my night of play, not 2-3 times. In fact, I don't want to play Escort, District and other Conquest maps in short succession, because that's fucking bad. When I ran a totally basic mapcycle on EPIC, I made sure all non-commander maps were at least 3 games apart, but I don't think that's super easy to implement with UMC or any mapvote/mapcycle plugin as far as I'm aware. I used to categorise maps into 8 categories: Open (Duststorm), Closed (Slaughtered), Compound (Cyclopean), Infantry (District), then again for custom maps. I'd run it with alternating customs/officials as well. It basically meant you didn't get 2 of the same maps twice. Obviously this sucked when a map like Chain came up with 3 players on the server, so regardless of how desperately I wanted this to work, it didn't.

    UMC does at the very least though, support a limit on how frequently maps can come up. I used to set it to 10 or something, so you'd be near guaranteed not to have the same maps in one night. But it's not just this. One of the biggest problems (as Reznov pointed out) is multiple versions of the same map. No plugin can compensate for that. Like seriously, as much as I view every version of Money other than my own as an abomination, I don't even care at this point. If money_cl is more popular, then put that in the cycle and remove stock Money. Having them both in the cycle is a terrible idea. I don't know if there are still multiple versions of District and Escort cycled, but the same point would apply.

    I'm not really a huge fan of mapvote in general to be honest. I feel like players just kind of have to be pushed into playing maps that aren't as common. I mean, I see Smokies come up in the vote pretty frequently, but I've never actually seen it win a vote. Smokies is a fucking great map (ok, the original version was better, but the version we have now is still good). When was the last time you guys saw maps like Frost, Blackmountain, Smokies, Glacial, Provinggrounds, Raiders, TropicVendetta, Fuel, etc. This has a knock-on effect as well. Where's the motivation for mappers if their maps never get voted? How is Freak going to improve CommanderGrad if no-one ever plays it, and why should he even bother if that's the situation? Why should Cyberkiller put time into restoring classic, really special maps like Insurrection if they aren't even going to get played?

    So yeah, I don't know the solution except a very specifically written mapvote plugin which would require a lot of time and effort from someone, only to then have players bitch that they want to play the same maps again and again. It's a sad state of affairs and I really don't know how it can be fixed. The other problem is, the only people who really care about it aren't actually playing so much now. Whether that's the cause or effect of this issue, I don't know.

    Apologies for the wall of text but this is something I'm fairly bothered about and have been for a while.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
  14. BigTeef

    BigTeef Bootleg Headshot master

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    Or you could display the names of the people who voted for what map, because I only see people make a troll vote and not care and then leave.

    By doing this we can lynch the people who actively make our experience worse.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
  15. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    It's not the best thing in the world. Typically it was supposed to be used if the map didn't really support the players playing it, or if it was bad...but it's actually working in exactly the opposite way. People are getting turned off the game instead of onto it.

    I think pretty much anyone who's played this game for a while will say that a particular map has stopped them from joining a server. And it's usually the same few.
     
  16. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    Make every map have to be played once before the nominations list resets, the nomination list locks maps when they get played, make it so only one of the conquest maps and shitty linear maps get unlocked on each reset and the rest locked.
     
  17. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

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    Let the commander of the winning team decide which map comes next.
     
  18. Candles

    Candles CAPTAIN CANDLES, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN.

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    Ever think that if I changed the maps often, people would then just say, "Admins are just fucking shit and don't have the balls to ignore the people who want the map changed"? The fact is, I've actually changed the map from Escort more often than not in the past two weeks or so when I've been on. There are people that have actually said, "No point voting Escort, Candles will just change it to something else anyway." There's only so much map vetoing I can do before I get the other people who do want the map bitching at me too. Put that on top of people complaining about the shotgun/sounds/tiny changes/everything, and it becomes a hard sell to get me to change the map again. It's also harder to justify overriding Money; with Escort, I can point out that it's just a single long pathway with no commander and a large number of other elements missing. With Money, I can't use that reasoning because it does have all the elements, albeit it in a very loose form.

    Oh, and then you get the admins that put up a vote for Octagons (which isn't even on VIPER) and Rainbowroad when people are calling for a map change and there are 40 people on it. If that vote passes and the map gets switched to anything else, then I get the people that were bitching at me to change the map, followed by the people that were bitching at me for changing the map, and finally the people that will bitch at me for not going to rainbowroad. It also entails overriding what another admin did, which isn't something that should ever be done lightly.
     
  19. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    I sent Vicki a note and asked her to add : midbridge, downfall, chain, cyclopean to the map cycle list. I may have missed some of the requests since the whine to info ratio exceeded my whine tolerance.

    Freak - good info - thank you.
     
  20. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Candles, who the fuck cares if they bitch, people who dont understand the game dont get a fucking vote. Let them bitch and moan.
     

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