Tickets for tanks rather than infantry.

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Aquillion, May 14, 2011.

  1. Aquillion

    Aquillion Member

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    I suggested this in another thread (here, with some additional reasoning on it), but I thought it could use its own thread for feedback.

    Basically: Make it so tickets aren't used for infantry; instead, give tanks a ticket cost based on their size. (Jeeps wouldn't cost a ticket.) The number of tickets would be adjusted to compensate.

    This would have several good effects:

    1. You avoid situations where players are unable to play the game, and avoid situations where players are rewarded for 'not playing' by waiting for revives.

    2. It makes it more possible to win on defense by blowing up tanks; at the same time, it makes defense more exciting, since instead of just turtling and focusing on survival, you're targeting enemy tanks and making a noticeable gain that you can track by watching enemy tickets. In general, it makes fighting tanks rather than structures more meaningful, so there's more focus on anti-tank combat rather than only rushing bases.

    3. It makes rushing more of a tactical choice, and makes it less of an auto-win to rush big tanks out first. If you rush, you can win quickly -- but if you don't win quickly, you'll run out of tickets and will get crushed by the enemy in turn. If the numbers are adjusted properly, this could also avoid long standoffs; it could be set up so if you're losing tanks and don't quickly win the game, you're going to lose.

    4. It especially makes infantry-vs-tank fights potentially valuable -- even if you lose a lot of infantry, if you can blow up tanks at a decent rate and can avoid getting your base completely crushed, you could win.

    5. It makes it possible to turn losing games around by blowing up tanks, which is a hard, fun, and satisfying way to reverse things -- it means that having a lot of really big tanks rolling at you is an opportunity, not just a "might as well ragequit" situation. At the same time, it's not a particularly 'bullshit' way to turn the game around -- if you run out of tickets, it's because you weren't winning, weren't protecting your tanks, and kept getting them blown up.


    Now, I can see some potential objections. Mainly, this is no longer as guaranteed a way to give the game a time limit -- if both teams run out of tickets, that could get drawn out. But I don't think that that's likely to happen very often (tanks vs. no tanks at all tends to finish very very quickly).

    If you're concerned about it, that could be solved in several ways -- sudden death of some sort when tickets run low, or perhaps a large number of tickets, with tanks costing a lot, and infantry still costing a small amount. Or maps could flat-out be given a timer.

    (Res is supposed to serve this purpose. But as a practical matter, it doesn't, because going all-out on offense and grabbing refs tends to make most of the res you lose when your tanks are blown up unimportant.)

    Obviously, this would be a map-specific setting; some maps don't have tanks, so they'd use the old ticket system.

    Anyway, what do you think?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  2. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    and if both teams wasted enough apcs the game ends with sudden death?
    i thought tickets are desperatly needed to end horrible stalemates (which actually indicates a map-sided problem rather then a game-mechanic problem) that happen all the time ...
     
  3. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    This is an interesting idea. I kinda like it.

    After all, Empires is about vehicle combat, not infantry combat (death to District!).

    Unfortunately, this changes too much. Other things would have to change to balance it. Games like this are pretty dogmatic. After they gain a vocal following, not much changes. Empires has a few dozen aspies at its disposal, it's not changing without putting up a fight. Sorry. .(
     
  4. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    only thing tickets are good for is ending games in the middle of the fun or letting a team win that failed to take any initiative
     
  5. Brutos

    Brutos Administrator Staff Member Moderator

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    I dont like this, people don't use enough tanks anyway, this would punish tank usage.
     
  6. Krazer

    Krazer Member

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    Thank god.
     
  7. Brutos

    Brutos Administrator Staff Member Moderator

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    Why would you thank a non existing entity for that, instead of someone who actuallynhas the power to change something. And are you doing this irrational act because people don't use enough tanks or because people should use more tanks?
     
  8. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    Would just like to point out that if you die in a tank you cannot be revived and therefore will loose a ticket anyway - so in many ways this is already implemented. Of course you can get out of the tank just before it blows up - but then you are still likely to die in most cases.

    If tickets are low enough it is already possible to win due to tickets even if you are turtled around the last barracks. I don't like the idea of rewarding a team for loosing.

    Although I have always thought that it would be good for grens to get a homing rpg and maybe upgraded damage RPG again (researchable) which would be useful in that situation. I think Grens are not nearly strong enough against med/heavy tanks even with good cover, an ammo crate & a radar.
     
  9. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    It's interesting, but has drawbacks. I know this sounds sort of stupid, and probably a poor comparison, but if you know what Starcraft II gets like when the entire map has been emptied of resources, every unit you have becomes an asset, every jeep, apc and tank a finite tool you can use to win. But on the other hand, it's much easier to defend than to attack, which is where the comparison pretty much ends. Rushing your last 4 heavy tanks at the enemy commander and losing them to a swarm of essentially free infantry, would be pretty aggravating. And as Brutos said, it's a struggle to get people to buy tanks as it is, so we wouldn't want to penalise it.
     
  10. Empty

    Empty Member

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    I don't play empires to drive tanks so this is basically a fuck you to everything i do ingame.
     
  11. Krazer

    Krazer Member

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    I would rather thank a non existent entity than a real one.

     
  12. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    because?
     
  13. Razorbud

    Razorbud Coder

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    Before infantry tickets, there were some horribly drawn out games. Many, many ppl would just get irritated and leave during a game. The comm was commonly griefed, just to end a map
     
  14. communism

    communism poof

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    hey whered your sig go bro


    Also I saw this in another thread and I fucking love it, anything limiting faggot tanks but yet keeping their importance is a huge you go girl for me. Tickets are a useless mechanic that only come to play in pub games, this idea solves that problem and makes vets even happier (cuz tanks 4 fags)
     
  15. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    Got bored of it.
     
  16. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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    I don't understand how this would be a big fuck you if you don't drive tanks.
     
  17. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    Surely it would be the opposite?
     
  18. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Yeah, grens would have to take a balance hit. Otherwise, a team could just load up on grens and rape the early paper tanks, taking no ticket hit themselves.

    I guess it's not that great of an idea after all.
     
  19. communism

    communism poof

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    Could always have "tank tickets" slowly grow, jus sayin
     
  20. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    didnt we have tank limits at a time then everyone was liek "zomg no tank limits anymore"?
    u guys dont know what you want ...
     

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