make everything reseachable

light tanks, apcs, jeeps, STD cannons, missiles and MG and basic armor, turrets.

This reseach could be done without the radar (but a barracks should exist in order to do it)

Research for this items should be pretty cheap and relatively fast to complete.

Pros: This would enhance the the infantry battles and let commanders have better control on what is available to players. (stop the fucking jeep spam). Also it would make the more more strategic. Coms should have the option to go directly to mediums and completely skip lights. initial rushes will be controlled and make the game more strategy and less brute force in the begining. (not that initial APCs rushes are bad...).

But i think this will improve the strategy: The com will have to make a choice to reserach turrets to counter an apc rush or research APCs from the beginning for a rush.

Cons: noob coms will be more confused than ever. Initial APC rushes will be hindered by this. Developer time. Substantial change in game dynamics (could this be just a switch in the server or triggered by the map if you want to have the classic reserach as it is right now or the extended research where this is implemented?)

 

with radar...but only like 10 sec. research or sumthn... and jeeps are available as default....

 

:thumbsdown:

This is not my only point of contention, but, starting with Flasche, everyone else is going to pick the rest of it apart like starved hyenas.

 

I understand the goal of this suggestion, but I think it's more of a bandaid than a true fix.

The thing that we all want is more control for the commander. Right now, the only thing the commander can do is lock the VF.

I think the commander should be able to limit each chassis and each upgrade (armor, engine, weapon) on a team-wide or individual basis. Also useful would be the ability to limit class, skills and weapons to the entire team or the individual.

This kind of control seems obvious to me. I'm sure others have suggested it. Instead of implementing bandaids like Griffin's research, why can't commander's just have complete control? Where's the RTS in FPS/RTS?

I'm sure an experienced com could come up with dozens of useful situations, but this noob shall outline a few that dawned on his inferior mind:

1. Compo and $$. Unless a team has 10k res, the commander cannot research Compo armor without getting some serious grief from his teammates. The commander could limit Compo to a handful of players, eliminating financial concerns.
   
2. Arty and Money. If you don't get Arty tanks on Money, you lose. However, once noobs hear "artillery", they all freak out and pump out Arties like they're Jeeps. The commander could pick three or four players for Arty privileges and limit their class to Gren w/Arty Feedback.
   
3. Noobs and Scout. The commander could limit the "Scout" class to a handful of players and prevent half of the team picking scout just to use a sniper rifle.
   
4. Noobs and Engineer. The command should force all noobs to be Engineers with repair upgrade.

 

Is that really what this thread's about? 'Cos if so you could always do the vehicle allotment thing - where you say "team can build: 3 artilleries", "team can build: unlimited APC's", etc. The limiting armour and engines would be...more complex though.

To my mind there's only one gameplay reason, and that is that distracting the commander from researching is a valid tactic.

 

Can't queue research because that negates the point of distracting the enemy comm so he forgets to start up the next bit. Eventually, the comm will get considerably more control over vehicle creation, with much of the stuff you mentioned.

As for the suggestion, no. We tried a 60 research for unlocking most stuff. It sucked. This takes more away from the game than it adds.

 

Ok, some clarifications.

My posting is about adding the standard items into the reseach tree and make them accessible through reseach if the barracks exist. I still think that it will make the game more strategic from the beginning and give the commander something additional to do (now that targets are gone). If this was tried before and it sucked, then I am satisfied that this was explored and discarded. That is the correct process for improving the game.

Any aditional implications that this might have are only me trying to see the consequenses of this change.

Oh and I am not saying research queue. Just add the std items to research.

Also, this is the suggestion box. Sometimes we can come up with ideas that are not completely developed and the dialog here is intended to analyze the idea, improve it or discarded. So please dont come here saying that the idea needs to be completely developed when posted. Just contribute if you have something to say (like you did in the end, yay for you).

 

So the goal of the suggestion is to give coms something to do during the beginning of a game? Humor a poor fool and explain your idea further. .)

I thought it was to restrict certain vehicles, i.e. provide the com with more control. If we want to give coms more control, I think we should do just that, and not beat around with it.

I understand that a com might not want jeeps for the first 5 minutes of a match. However when he does want jeeps, he shouldn't have to wait 10s for psuedo-research. He needs to have his jeeps immediately.

And what if a com wants a vehicle type for 2 minutes and then doesn't want them for the rest of the game? You can't "unresearch".

I think we that could be a fine addition to the game, but its usefulness would be very situational. I think Trickster mentioned that explicit vehicle controls would be useful in many more situations.

 

I don't get what the big deal is.

If I join Bravo squad on Slaughter and my com tells Bravo to take Sbend with three repair engies and two revive engies, should I just go scout and try to snipe across the bridge? No, I go engy and cross into Sbend.

Later in the match, if the com tells Bravo to take an APC through Sbend, would I build a light tank? No, I'd build an APC and have my buddies pile in.

Good players already follow their commanders. It's the people that think they want to use an arty tank on Money, until they get frustrated without arty feedback and just leave the expensive tank sitting around. Those are the players that need guidance.

When we play this game, we are filling a role. Our abilities mesh together with those of our teammates and we make something special happen. Something greater than the sum of its parts, something that simply cannot be found in a CoD-esque FPS. That's Empires.

 

Why would players not be able to get tanks? If a team has the money, the com usually has more trouble getting everyone into a tank. if the team doesn't have the money, they can't afford to outfit everyone with a tank anyway.

The problems of the current laissez faire control arise on the fringe of strategy. The weird things that aren't normally useful. If it's not useful, it isn't going to be fun to use it. Therefore, these things need to be locked. I'm talking about jeeps, scout, arties. That's about it for broad limitations across an entire team.

I'm really struggling to see where complete commander control could be grossly abused and still yield a win. Abuse is when a commander is limiting a useful tool. If you limit something that is useful, you lose. Could you fill me in with specific scenarios?

 

I don't understand why we need to cater to noobs.

Noobs like to play scout, why don't we buff the scout rifle? Right now, all those noobs aren't contributing to their team. If we buffed scout, they could contribute!

I also see a lot of noobs picking rifleman. Why not buff rifleman as well? The nooby players would have more fun!

You're right. Jeeps are fucking annoying. Good drivers are painfully obnoxious to other drivers. But those good drivers are usually driving more important vehicles, so jeeps tend to descend into obscurity. They are definitely useful, but situational.

 

YAY for democracy!... oh wait.