Finally played my first round on emp_flat. Really nice map but only 100 res at startup and no refinery is a big noob commander trap. Would be better if startup refinery is already prebuild. And tickets seems to be a little low with only about 100 per team. Is this the intention of the map (ticket wars)? Else I would increase them.
Silk made the map ages ago but lost the will to work on it. It had a missing texture spot so I wasn't supposed to cycle it at the time which was probably like a year ago. But when updating the map cycle I noticed the file in the folder so I decided to add it. PM me the problems in IRC and I'll try and fix them server side. I can ramp up the tickets to 400 and increase the starting res to 200 or 300.
bush, flat, frost, ovaries, ... one of these days i'm gonna grab all those maps and required files and just put them in one big rar. If someone then wants to work on it they're free to do so. But for the love of all that is good in the world, please don't just release them as they are !! I hate it when people go "oh it's only for empires, i don't have to make it look good". Adding unpolished maps to the list makes things worse !! It's what made me stop playing empires, and i'm sure i'm not the only one who feels that way. Instead ... make every map you make a beauty to be proud of, to set an example for others. Empires has become the dustbin of the modding scene when it comes to levels and either that has to stop or empires itself will. When i've collected everything i'll put the link in this topic.
I've been checking my unfinished maps and they're not even worth a few minutes of my time to be honest (especially since i know for a fact that some idiots would put them on servers anyway). I did put together, i hope, all the files for Bush http://dl.dropbox.com/u/234836/mapping/emp_bush 225.rar It's the one i wanted to finish for Empires 2.25, but didn't finish it entirely. I've put the to do list in there as well, but i'll give some info here as well:
Thanks Silk. Your efforts are appreciated and your custom map contributions certainly don't go unrecognized. Thanks for all the great maps and hopefully you will decide to map for Empires some more in the future! Also, much thanks for handing out the files for people to toy with. I still hope to see emp_bush become official. Cheers,
Well i never managed to fix the light problem at map-skybox transition in bush. None of the trics i use in other maps worked in here. Had i been able to find a solution to it i would've finished it almost a year ago. The "improve graphically" just means improving the map in general, there's no extra glitches that need to be addressed or something. It looks the same as the one in 2.24. I just wanted to add some blend of green and not green colors to the hills instead of all green. To me bush plays well enough to become official, but i always had doubts about it's look. Well at least the bunker has been improved quite a lot. And the other stuff i can't remember ... well if in testing no problems occur i suppose that could just be ignored maybe. If they were obvious problems they should stick out. I had been messing with the material .vmt's a lot using detailclouds etc, so if something is wrong it might be in the materials. I didn't touch the no build brushes and the vehicle block brushes to make the hills inaccessible. Gameplay wise it should be fine i think. Well if maptesting compares to the changelist the gameplay should be fine. *tries to imitate friendly begging puppy eyes* maybe shandy or keef could have a look at the skybox lighting ? Sorry but Bush is my last map for empires. All other maps are halfway in between their last played versions and their new versions i was going for. It would take months to finish them, or weeks to bring them back to the way they were in the past.
why is this on epic and why does it look so much better than downfall. Someone vote this shit when epic ever gets some players.
I had a chance to play this, with about 3 people on each team. I got to say starting with basically no money is pretty cool.
So let's say i predict being bored next winter, and let's assume i might be interesed in polishing it up. - Does anyone have the vmf of the version that is currently on the nubs main server - Does it have gameplay problems Known problems: - Apparantly some basic start base buildings aren't preplaced at map start - BE-sided from what i've heared? Not actual problems but features: - low res income and low tickets, although tickets will get a slight increase
So here goes a long post... With a picture! Firstly. It does need a starting refinery... However I believe that there are certain gameplay design issues with the map. Especially for a low population game. That I believe has resulted in this map being heavily BE sided. Hooray for 1024x1024 image! Now let me explain what you are seeing Refineries: Firstly, each refinery has been crossed with the colour of the team that has it safely controlled. It is likely to be controlled by that team for a long time. Red cross -> NF easy control. Blue cross -> BE easy control. White cross -> Contested, or in vulnerable positions. Notice how BE have 3 safe refineries, however NF has only 1. This is the 1 starting refinery and 2 that are situated in a canyon. Secondly, each refinery has the ideal team name next to it of who "should" control it, for an equal start to both teams. Notice how each team has 4 associated refineries that "should" be controlled for a balanced start. However NF has 3 that are in vulnerable positions rather than 1 for BE. Lines: Purple lines -> Easily defendable positions, where a solid battle-line can be established, vehicle chokepoints. White lines -> Choke points that form part of a path split. work in 2 parts, harder to defend. The issue part 1 - Defending. I've also drawn black lines showing my expected movement of players. The problem is that BE require 3 units to obtain their ideal number of refineries, and that NF would require 4. The number of units is up for debate and does ultimately result in the 3 choke points per side. They each have 1 up north, and 2 down south. This all seems fine. However what happens when NF lose(or never obtain!) their northern choke point... They are then forced to defend from 2 sides. The next chokepoint is behind their next refinery. So NF can choose to fall back, and place another defence however they have lost control of 2 refineries whilst doing it. leaving them with only 2. Now let us consider this from the BE perspective. If BE lose(or never obtain!) their northern choke point, they have another one right behind it, so they can immediately form another defensive line. Most importantly, they do not lose another refinery in the process of falling back. This means that a loss in north is far worse for NF than for BE. As for the south side of the map? That could go either way... Both teams are left with the same options. The issue part 2 - Regaining map control for NF. The situation has occurred, where NF have been forced to fall back to a defensive line behind the northern path split and neither team has control of the south 2x refinery. They are currently 2 refineries down out of the desired 4. So now they are falling behind quickly in resources. This often occurs after a bad start. They have two options. Attempt to retake the north, or attempt to conquer the south. Either way requires them to attack(and defend) on two fronts... If they choose to retake north, taking the first refinery is easy, however maintaining control and progressing to the next one is difficult as it requires an attack and defense on two fronts. Consider the same situation for BE? If they have lost control of north? They may either be 1 or 2 refineries down. They have the same decision, north or south? If they choose to retake the north... They can now start a slow push through the canyon to reclaim their refineries. Attacking and defending on the same front. They do not have to split their efforts in the north until they have safely retaken their 4 desired refineries. This makes it far easier to retake the lost northern refineries as BE than as NF. Hence making it far harder to make a comeback from a bad start as NF.
As for a solution? The north can stay asymmetric, however each team needs an equal number of main refineries that are easily defendable. As for improvements? And may I suggest tunnels through the cliffs and infantry routes up the sides. edit: perhaps not number of refineries... but total income from safe refineries... maybe nf gets a 2x one to make up for the hard to get ones.
okay, some ideas for the map 1. putting more trees in north for NF would allow them to slow down BE from advancing by putting turrets in the forest 2. there could be added a slope with place to put turrets, and maybe some kind of bridges/tunnels complex to defend with infantry? the slope could alse work as a place for rax 3. as BE has advantage in north NF could get one route blocked for vehicles by making this area accesible only for infantry (also possible place for a small lake/water) 4. and as NF got advantage in south by blocking one way, some stones could be added in the south of ref to help BE advancing and holding the place, because NF already got forest near it
Perhaps one of the routes could be blocked off from tanks and making it infantry only, like avatarix said, adding rocks perhaps. This would create a choke point that could be used for defending against vehicles, whilst enabling coordinated infantry combat as a means of breaking the defence.
I don't think it needs tunnels or infantry routes up the sides. All the trees on this map make it easy for someone to take cover if they need it. By tunnels do you mean like in coast how there's that one tunnel that goes outside the map and comes back in further on, near nf base? Those just suck, it's place to stash a apc out of view. I don't like it either because it takes people away from the main fighting areas. Normally I like side paths but flat has such an open area to build combat areas it would be a shame to take focus away from it. It makes for huge trench warfare like canyon and that's a great thing, because that's very organic gameplay. I honestly never thought about how nf has 2 paths to their main from north. You're right though, once it's lost it's super hard to take back. I don't really want it to clone be's side, I kinda agree just plugging up one of those paths with rocks or maybe even filling the whole path with forest would be better. It allows for options at least. I will say I laugh a bit at that line of defense be's second ref at north, people usually just park a apc next to the forest and cut though it. It's a pretty crappy defense point.
It's a defensive line against tanks. Not infantry. Tanks can't use the forest. As for the tunnels... I thought perhaps infantry tunnels through the cliffs to higher vantage points overlooking some of the key refineries. Think of tunnels from the side of the south cliffs, running through the rocks to a platform overlooking that 2x refinery. It just seems a shame to have such awesome cliffs, and not be able to have infantry firing down from them.
