blizzerd gunscripts 0.3

Discussion in 'Coding' started by blizzerd, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i find the scripts unsatifying to express myself diplomatic ...

    u need better accuracy and be it only for the first shot. but i noticed you not gonna listen to anyone anyway.

    currently its "empires: rofleman mod"

    while i find some of your ideas interesting, the implementation sucks. also dont test weapons on confined maps like district - this will give you a completely wrong impression. test open maps, then youll see how bad your SMGs suck.

    but again, you wont listen to me, so why do i bother to write back?
     
  2. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    its kinda strange, since mayama said all the weapons are decent besides the rifleman weapons, they had far too few "decrement" or something (the regain of accuracy)


    the smg's are not made to be long range weapons, as an engineer you are not supposed to be able to attack a rifleman over a large range and be successful

    you ether sneak up to him or build a turret

    i prefer that one snowy urban map with vehicles to test weapons tbh , but then again yea... i do think they still need work, i will probably tamper with the assault rifles a bit, and the special smg's (the close range spam one will stay)


    also i have learned that these scripts have numerous bugs in 2.24d, i ether suspect most of the people that raged to have suffered from these bugs extencively
     
  3. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    new post as subject changes drastically

    i tried out some of flasches ideas, and it was simply bad, weapons turned into deathlasers like the nf HMG when 'tapping' the mousebutton really fast because the super fast regain of accuracy meant that the first bullet of a burst would always be at its accurate -st, even if you tapped the mousebutton like a pistol (and thus, each bullet would become the first of a burst)

    i tried some compromises in the middle (with the nf rifle1) but they where bland and uninspired and seemed a decrease on most fronts

    if flasche can make a nf rifle1 with his vision that does 30+ damage per round (since any lower is the same crap that i try to move away from) id be more then happy to evaluate how he did it and ether put it in, or port its mechanic
     
  4. Foxy

    Foxy I lied, def a Forum Troll

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    Only way that an engi/scout should be able to kill a rifleman, is by surprise, numbers, or him being a crappy rifleman.
     
  5. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    yes, i fully agree

    id like to add "or when he has a turret up" but i think you mean that aswell
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    no i meant:

    high accuracy for the first shot, low damage over range (aka high falloff). the point is, unless the weapon has some production flaw, the first shot hits where you point your weapon at.
    with your weapons the first shot is completely random.

    u can counter sniping behaviour with falloff.

    all your "balancing" does is to promote rifleman even more. you can run and shoot, damn you even have full accuracy when you bunnyhop around the map. this is just wrong.

    given your smgs are decent at extreme close combat situations, but thats something you will like never have in empires.
    think outside the district box. take maps like, duststorm, mvalley, cyclo. on neither of this map youll have any chance to sneak up on guys. especially not with commander targets.

    as engineer you will just be pray - and there wont be many engies anymore.
    wonder whos gonna build up stuff for you ... i doubt that rofles will ebuild ...
     
  7. Empty

    Empty Member

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    Falloff is a shit gameplay mechanic.
     
  8. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    then i suggest you implement code that has realistic bullet physics ... :rolleyes:
     
  9. Empty

    Empty Member

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    Realistic bullet physics has nothing to do with it.

    Bullet falloff gives no feedback what so fucking ever to the player. It sucks ass.
     
  10. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    aha and the feedback you get with completely random bullet distribution would be what?

    also it has lots to do with realistic bullet physics. a gun unless its badly produced shoots where you point it at. every gun has something thats called effective range - thats the range where the gun is accurate while the impact power of the projectile is still able to penetrate whatever its designed to kill. for pistols thats a few 10 meters (yes, i know thats fairly different in movies) while for assualt rifles this lies within several hundred meters. the effective range for submachine guns is somewhat in between this - its highly dependend on their design and the length of the barrel (i found 200m for a P90).

    damage, range and penetration power is mainly dependend on caliber, bullet type, barrel length and v0. large calibers transmit more kinetic energy on impact, up to what is considered as being man-stopping, smaller callibers are more precise and usually have a higher penetration power as their smaller profile gives them less resistance.

    and now its your turn again ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  11. Empty

    Empty Member

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    You can see where the bullets land, you have an aimcone represented on your screen.
     
  12. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    no you can not, you see the area in which your bullets will be distributed randomly, but you have no fucking clue where your bullet gonna hit.

    IF anything is a bad gameplay mechanic than its spread tbh. it should be your crosshair thats moving around on the screen, not the cone getting larger - in the end guns always shoot where their barrel aims at.

    again, to somewhat realisticly represent the behaviour of these weapons they need to be pinpoint accurate on the first shot and have falloff levels dependend on their barrel length. dependend on the gun design and how you think this gun should be used, you then apply spread. make spread go up extremly fast for close combat weapons like smgs so you cant spray snipe over distance and have it go up slowly for assault rifles.

    fallouf is nothing else than a cheap representation of the fact that bullets just drop to the ground after a certain distance that is depenend on the weapons v0.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  13. Empty

    Empty Member

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    Oh for gods sake.

    [/anotherlostcause]
     
  14. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    "he doesnt agree with me, hes a lost cause" QQ

    i sadden ... not :D
     
  15. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    you are implying that anyone with a small bit of basic training can fire a gun out of his or her hands perfectly accurate over a range of a few dozen meters

    that just is not true in real life, some people will never be able to fire a M82A1 with perfect accuracy on a target as close as 20 meters, those things weigh a ton and are very long and generally were not even designed to be used unless as prone and i dont want weapons to be too much better prone then any other mode (smg's work equally well prone or standing for example, rifles have small increases in stats)

    its not really possible to simulate a guns weight and recoil and unwieldiness in a game, that's where decrement and never perfect accuracy come in

    i agree, i exaggerated with my guns on some levels (smg) , and cartoonised it with others (pistol)

    then again this is a game, and these are the values that are most fun

    nobody likes snipers... not even in team fortress2 for example
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  16. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    ofc, if not disabled, anyone could do that ... with some exceptions ofc some guns have a nasty punch tho, i give you that. still the projectile goes where the barrel points at, not to some random spot in some random area randomly decided by some random guy ...

    and finally the guys in empires aint "anyone", they are trained soldiers ...

    spread is good to simulate shaking/kickback of a weapon when fire on auto without actually calculating it.
    falloff is good to simulate the fact that the projectile looses speed as soon as you pull the trigger (aka it slows down after shot because its not self propelled) without actually calculating it.

    its mechanics designed to avoid horrible runtime, dont abuse it because you might think its funnier, use them as they were intended ...
     
  17. Empty

    Empty Member

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    Believe me, bulllets do not lose stopping power over 50m.
     
  18. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    whatever ...

    pistols should hit PINPOINT ACCURATE at up to around 80m, submachine guns up to 200m and assault rifles up to 300 - 400m. for more diverstity you could use ranges like 75m, 150m and 300m ... as you cant change that with a spray pattern, because bullet distribution gets completely random, u have to use falloff. if you like it or not ...

    blizzerds smgs dont even hit reliable at around 10m, whereas pistols shoot accurate over the whole distance of district - im not even talking bout assault rifles that are rediculously overpowerd accuracy wise (full acc while jumping - i mean WTF ...)

    its just wrong and it feels wrong ...

    if you want randomly calculated values i suggest you go and play some RPG ...

    <discussion/>
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  19. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    you have clearly never held a gun in your life, and if you did then you are rambo, and stupid enough to think everyone is like rambo and anyone of normal appearance is substandard

    ether that or you are trolling me to the point of troubling me deeply
     
  20. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i'd just whish id be as wise and smart as you. but maybe the time i had to spend in our forces is too long ago and i just cant remember how scaringly piss easy it was to hit targets :rolleyes:

    but yes i start to realize - i could bring whatever argument i want, you will still think your idea is the best since sliced bread.

    <discussion/>
     

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