Fixing the "Slippery slope"

Discussion in 'Game Play' started by Omneh, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. spellman23

    spellman23 Member

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    However, tanks have serious flaws that can make them vulnerable without infantry support. For one thing, they're much bigger targets. They can't shoot targets that are next to them (whoa re probably stickying them). They can't really remove walls effectively.


    Personally if we upgrade infantry, we need more ways of exploiting inherent faults of the tanks, but still let tanks win in an open fight. Let's face it, tanks cost res, respawns only cost tickets.
     
  2. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    this is a bullshit argument. for the few hundred res you pay you shouldnt get all that buffs you get from tanks in the first place.
    just because you fear that you wont get any kills anymore doesnt mean its well balanced or justified.

    and if tickets eventually should get removed, you prolly argue - "hey tanks should give you complete invulnerability and kill everyone just by looking at them - because infantry doesnt cost a ticket but tanks resources ..."

    :pathetic:
     
  3. Scylla

    Scylla Member

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    Wait does that include the jeep xD?

    Agreed. I think this has gone kinda off topic though. Tanks = OP vs infantry, we all get this. Were trying to fix he slippery slope here. So that once one team has the middle ect. they wont just crush the emeny or the next 20 minutes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  4. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    like if tanks wouldnt be THE imbalanced part of the game ... seriously :rolleyes:
     
  5. aaaaaa50

    aaaaaa50 Member

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    Personally, I would like to see the refineries become more important targets. Currently, if one team had the majority of refineries then if they loose one or two it doesn't affect their resource income very much. Here's an idea: The longer a team has a refinery, the more resources are lost if that refinery is destroyed. Refineries near the front lines wouldn't matter much, but the first couple of refineries a team has would be very costly to loose. That way, if a loosing team can destroy one of the important refinery nodes, then they can actually halt enemy tank production more effectively than just killing the closest VF. This only means that loosing a refinery costs a team resources, not that an older refinery produces any more resources than a new one.

    This would go well with the suggestion that refineries are free to place, say by making the starting loss of a refinery 200 res and then scaling up from there. However, this is only a minor point.
     
  6. La_Mort_13

    La_Mort_13 Member

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    The refineries are already rather important targets. Think about games on Cyclopean for example: most losing teams spend time taking out refs in the middle. Which brings up another problem with this idea: sabotage would become drastically more powerful.
     
  7. Scoops

    Scoops Member

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    How about incremental costs to constructing certain buildings. The more of buildings X you make, it doubles, triples or goes up in exponentially, whatever works. It would allow them to be built early on the cheap to prevent being over run to easily, and would prevent barracks spam.
     
  8. Nickierv

    Nickierv Member

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    repair pads are not setting any speed records with the current speeds, as they take something like 2 seconds per plate. On a heavy with 20 plates, this rounds out to 40 seconds per tank. What happens when you get shoved off the pad?
    Also, the repair pad will not work with tanks that are bioed, making it more OP than physics.
    /ponder

    To address the issue of RPG damage, what about adding a bit of extra damage for each chassis that your team researches? If you know how to make stronger tanks, you can make better weapons to fight them.

    The first X barracks costs Y, after X, they cost Z.
    @ 200 res each, there are only so many places that you are going to be building barrackes.
    @ 400 res each, there are still only so many places that you can fit a barracks, and most of the time they are going to be used.
    Unless the buildings stop geting more expensive at some point, a team will be unable to advance due to the barracks being too expensive
    barracks costing more than 500 res or with unlimited cost growth will result in games going no where, half the team playing playing scout to try to sab barrackes because they just became the new 9mine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2009
  9. Scylla

    Scylla Member

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    How would this fix it? Okay now the losing team can't place a ref in there base cause it costs like 500 res. The solution has to be something that unbalances the game to the losing side favor so they have a chance to make a come back. The losing team with this will just fall into a deeper and deeper hole. Also eventuality this could lead to stalemates where teams can't place refenries due to the fact that there costing like 2000res each.

    This has mean mentioned several times.

    The following statements have been mentioned by several different people along with most of the solutions.

    The biggest problems that cause the "Slippery Slope" are
    1.Whichever team fields heavies first almost always wins.
    2. a) lost of the starting forwards Barracks will cause the "Slippery Slope" most of the time because the defending team (the losing team) can't push forwards
    2. b) while the enemy gathers more refineries leading to the first problem. (the heavy tanks)
    3. Incompetent starting commander or players; either of these lead to the first and second problem (not that we can do anything to fix this really....)

    Possible Solutions
    1. a) Better antitank units. View the rpg thread.
    b) Upkeep. All tanks and buildings cause reductions from income.
    c) IMHO lower vehicle limits this prevents tank spam. better tech shouldn't mean more tanks. (even if this will piss people off.)

    2. a) Refinery Scaling. Each new ref gives off less than the previous. Example First ref generates 100 res/s Second ref generates 80/s Third ref generates 60/s and so on (scale is an example)
    b) Each team has more starting res to place multipul barracks on differnt choke points. allowing them a second chance.
    c) The commander generates a portion of the total resources on the map on top of what refineries you have. Example: The map has 4 refs each gives 100 res/s so the comander generates 100res/s (1/4 of total) + 200/s from the 2 refs he/she controls.

    3. a) view rpg thread
    b) no more logical ideas

    I meant have missed something if you fell its important post it below. (if you want.)

    To Nickierv
    He/she? posted like a few seconds before i posted this

    I never said they where. That is to prevent repair pad spam in the place of engineer repairing. When you get shoved off rage at your teammates then drive off xD.
    I like your rpg damage idea maybe contribute it to the rpg thread i can't find it right now.

    Edit: i think i found it http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=9578
    let the repair pad counter bio damage slowly or somethign im not perfect.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2009
  10. aaaaaa50

    aaaaaa50 Member

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    Now I know that people can't read. Jeez. :eek:

    I said that refineries should cost 0 resources to build. You only loose resources if a refinery is destroyed. That way a loosing team can stop the winning team from producing tanks for a while if the loosing team blows up a valuable refinery. In fact, I think the accumulating penalty over time is kinda stupid. Say, the more refineries a team has (in proportion to the total refineries in the map), the more resources that team looses if it looses a refinery, no matter how long that refinery has been standing.

    But, of course, my ideas are so obviously stupid, flawed, and pathetic that noone should even bother reading it, let alone think about it for more than the time it takes to form an opinon! :pathetic:
     
  11. Scylla

    Scylla Member

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    My Bad. but in my way of forgiving i agree with your last sentence xD
     
  12. spellman23

    spellman23 Member

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    Heh, the "free ref" system has returned!

    Another version is that the refs don't produce res for a certain period, kinda like a "warmup". I believe it got a decent amount of support.
     
  13. Scylla

    Scylla Member

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    gawd they killed the free ref system for a reason
    the warmup time will cause more slope not less xD cause the team whose rax just blew up will have to wait even longer before they get another forwards raxx.
     
  14. o_O

    o_O Member

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    The whole point of free refs was they would function exactly the same but paid for out of their own res production. That way if they got blown up before being finished you didn't loose any money in the process.
     
  15. Nickierv

    Nickierv Member

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    Current ref:
    Team has 100 res, ref costs 100 res and starts producing as soon as it is built.
    Free ref system:
    Team has 99 res, ref costs 0 and starts producing after it has "mined" 100 res.
    Assuming that I got this right, how will this increase the slope? If anything, it will save the team that has emp_recruit that builds a jeep with the reason "i haz tank now" just as the last refinery gets destroyed, leaving the team with no income but 99 res.
     
  16. Scylla

    Scylla Member

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    sorry i misunderstood the free refs i was thinking of something else My bad its a pretty good idea. just not my week today i feel like an idiot:headshot:
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009

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