[ENGINEER] Change Seismic grenades

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by zenarion, Jul 28, 2009.

  1. zenarion

    zenarion Member

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    Change Seismic grenades into Sticky Seismic grenades, that do more damage, but cannot be thrown over walls.
    Keep the fuse time, maybe jack up the damage.
    The minimized range will make nadespam harder.
    Nades being sticky will not bounce off buildings that easy either, so when you stick it to em, it will definetly stick, and not bounce back in your face.
     
  2. Mashav

    Mashav Member

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    Unless you make seismics not even throw able you can't make them not able to be thrown over walls. However, I presume you're referring to hiding behind a wall and just spamming from far away.

    As for the actual suggestion, I've actually suggested this myself. My only problem is the damage. If they are increased in damage, it should be tested without an increase in damage first, then if its decided that it needs more then it could be added.
     
  3. zenarion

    zenarion Member

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    Yeah, you got it right. This would be almost as "placed charges" and less like "grenades" then.
    I would love to test this, see if it would work.
     
  4. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    I also suggested this, but I said that they should be fewer in number and they should do their damage over time rather than instantly, but with greater damage per grenade overall, so you run up to a building and stick these on it and it gets shaken to bits basically, it would mean several engies could overcome a building easily, but one would have trouble. I also suggesting having them, and all grenades, regenerate over time rather than getting them from ammo crates, which solves the 'blow up an entire base as engy' thing.
     
  5. zenarion

    zenarion Member

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    If it would be DoT, it could also be countered in some way.
    Which makes this tactic not overpowered.
     
  6. Sirex

    Sirex Member

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    I agree with you and zenarion to remove the throw spam of seismic and make them sticky range, and i like your suggestion of seismic damage over time. It would be a cool effect also.

    But would it not be better with grenade ammobox in armouries and not being able to get grenades from engy boxes? Thus you need to establish yourself to get grenades instead of just regen, because it take time to build an armory and it is visible and can be counterd.
     
  7. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    The main problems with that approach are that it doesn't make a huge amount of sense that the same ammobox should do something different in different places, might be confusing to new players. You'd need another ammobox model I think, specifically for grenades, or one which contains both, but it'd still be odd that the standard crates would pack rockets, mortar shells, and tank ammo, but not grenades.

    Secondly, I don't really want to have armories be dropped to allow people to nuke whole bases, I mean they're piss easy to build for engineers and cheap as a missile turret. I also don't want people to have to call for armories just to restock their nade ammo after killing an enemy base.

    Thirdly, I like the idea of them regenerating. I like the idea of players being able to keep going more or less without any commander assistance as long as they're in a group. Regenerating ammo with a limited maximum would mean groups of infantry would be able to destroy most things easily, and then move on without having to wait for an armory drop. Regenerating ammo also works lovely with scouts because they might need to use their grenades quite a bit without being able to resupply.

    Ideally I'd like scouts to have a regenerating primary weapon as well, but grenades seem to suit all classes.

    I think DoT would be neccesary for a higher damage grenade because half the structure health disappearing instantly would seem stupid. I don't much like that scouts can do that.
     
  8. Mashav

    Mashav Member

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    You've mentioned this before. Could you give me some ballpark numbers as to what you mean?

    Like X% damage over Y seconds.
     
  9. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Well assuming it's going to be limited to 2 or 3 max, it's going to have to do at least half or 1/3rd of the damage required to destroy any structure if left unattended, because an engy needs to be able to demolish things, and it should probably be a little bit over so that it doesn't mean one unit of healing can save the structure.

    2 engies getting into sticky range should be a major worry for a building, so that would also suggest high damage capaicty.

    However to prevent it being massively OP, and taking into account that the damage should stack the more of them are on the building, I'd say have the damage be dealt over seven seconds.

    Factoring in throw time, it should take ten seconds or so to destroy the toughest totally undefended building, slightly faster if you decon simultaneously.

    As this is an engy only ability and engies would be considerably nerfed against turrets unless they use their MLs to take them out) this doesn't seem too fast, as they can no longer ninja bases quickly and quietly if you defend them with turrets, and it's also slow enough to allow multiple engies to stack up the damage easily enough to overcome a defending repair force, much easier than they can if they are using existing seismics, combine it with mortar and tank fire and it should beat even heavy repair tanking, if you don't have tanks you'd have to clear the structure before you throw, the fast damage should kick in before the engies respawn.

    You might consider making the damage percentage based, so all structures take the same percentage damage, lighter structures take less damage than heavier ones and all die in the same amount of time, which would solve possible balance issues with things like armories and repair pads.
     
  10. Mashav

    Mashav Member

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    So 400% damage over 7 seconds?
    Sounds like too massive a buff, even with the nerfed throw range.

    I was Thinking more along the lines of a 20% or less buff in damage to compensate for the distance nerf. I suppose your numbers also take into account your "regening grenades"(of which I'm not a fan of) and the damage over time(which if it comes with more damage just seems better to me) but even then it still seems a little much.
     
  11. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Yes if you were to have them ammo boxed you would have to reduce the damage, my numbers are based around the fact that once you throw them all they're gone for a while and you can't get any more, so they need to be destructive.

    But I don't like the idea of someone running up to a rax, dropping an ammo box, and then sitting there spamming grenades at it.

    It's hardly an improvement over the existing nadepsam.
     
  12. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    a sticky grenade that spreads out heat waves (those heat ripple particles) as a way to show seismick shocks (and to show its position to the enemy)

    you trow them on a building, and the building bleeds HP, as a way to counter it you can knock it off the building with a meele or a gunshot but you have to find it! if you knock it off the building... bleed stops

    only 1 per building (the rest will fall off/wont work) and they work like mines (put more then the limit and the previous dissipate)

    likes/dislikes?
     
  13. aaaaaa50

    aaaaaa50 Member

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    :pathetic:

    Everyone would just throw the nades in inaccessible places. It would always be better to repair the building than to go jumping at the nades stuck in the roof.

    /fail
     
  14. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    not if the trow range was that of a sticky, dumbo


    if the nade is in the roof you just shoot it, damage destroys it as i typed before
     
  15. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    I don't really want to have to look for a tiny little grenade stuck anywhere on a building.

    Either you'd have to make it weak enough to find before it kills the building, in which case it's not worth using, or you have to make it strong, in which case just throw it in an inaccessible place, there are plenty of those on all buildings, and the building unavoidably dies from one sticky.
     
  16. zenarion

    zenarion Member

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    What if the sticky nades could be shot when attached to a building.
    Shot and damaged, so the effect stopped.
    Or, you could engy-repair-spam the building, to counter the attached seismic during the time it is active.
     
  17. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Looking for things stuck to your building isn't much fun, if you want to have something that defenders have to disable, I'd say it would have to be some sort of deployable which drains health from enemy buildings near it, about the size of a camera and with an obvious glow around it.
     
  18. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    a thumper stick like in dune, but then to steadily destroy buildings :o


    [​IMG]
     
  19. RKB53

    RKB53 Member

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    This is pointles nades are fine, if you lose your base to one engineer with nades and ammo then you deserve to lose that base.
     
  20. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Why exactly do I deserve to lose the base because I was away capping refs, or fighting in a tank, or carrying out a commander order? Or generally doing anythng other than sitting in the base waiting for something to happen?

    Saying 'you deserve it' only applies to individual players, not teams.
     

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