Remove explosive grenades entirely.

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Aquillion, Jun 4, 2009.

  1. Aquillion

    Aquillion Member

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    Everyone hates explosive nadespam. How often do they get used for anything but explosive nadespam?

    Sure, there are other ways we could address that issue... but ultimately, I don't think explosive grenades actually add that much to the game. TF2 had the right idea here; they're just not very fun. They remove too much of the interaction between players. If you want to hit someone behind cover, the game already has mortars and big tank weapons, and heck, the rifleman is tough enough that he can just dash behind the cover and kill them (only he can't because he'll be running into their nadespam death wave himself, but you get the idea.)

    Most of the time, in non-infantry or tank maps, Empires generally isn't focused on flushing out infantry anyway -- you don't really need explosive grenades there (and stickies are more valuable.) In infantry maps, or in parts of comm maps where tanks can't reach, explosive grenades are just unfun and encourage boring move-and-you-die scenarios.

    The slim gameplay benefits they offer aren't worth the headaches. Sure, we could balance around them, but why? Just take them out.
     
  2. LordDz

    LordDz Capitan Rainbow Flowers

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    I'm on for it.
    Keep the stickies, remove the explosives.
     
  3. -=SIP=-

    -=SIP=- Member

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    I like this idea.
    Dying from explosive grenades is frustrating, because you can do nothing against it exept to run away.
    Also throwing endless grenades is also boring. You don't need much skill and notice the kills only from the messages.

    But because this suggestion will remove something from Empires you won't find many acceptance.
     
  4. Dawgas

    Dawgas Banned

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    I do not support this idea, because it is a part of a MASTER PLAN to make empires a boring kiddy game for small children

    w/e its a terrible idea
     
  5. LordDz

    LordDz Capitan Rainbow Flowers

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    So nadespamming is a fun serious game for old people?
     
  6. Sneaky

    Sneaky Member

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    An engineer behind a turret or wall is already a tough bitch to kill for a rifleman even with HE nades, without them it would mean you NEED a grenadier for EVERY SINGLE engineer you encounter.

    And what about turret spam? HE nades are perfect for keeping engies from repairing turrets while destroying turrets at the same time.

    In fact the ONLY time HE nades are not so fun is on district or other narrow infantry maps and those would be a ton better if there were more alternate routes that would also make HE nades less annoying.
     
  7. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    I use them whenever i'm a rifleman for anti-building, anti-vehicle, anti-anything really. What Sneaky says is absolutely true too. I was going to suggest we have it do less damage to infantry, but this really can't be done and preserve his scenario.

    Although, we could make it do 50% and knockback instead against infantry, which may help.
     
  8. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    That's a seismic thing.
     
  9. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

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    fixed...
     
  10. arklansman

    arklansman Member

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    TFC ofc.
     
  11. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    what about making ammo crates not replenish grenades or really slow?
     
  12. OuNin

    OuNin Member

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    The only I see with grenades is getting 50 million of them in a crate. Grenades are fine. It's just those stupid boxes.
     
  13. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    So no grenade spawns in ammo crates. Only armories, raxes, and mapper-placed ammoz?


    *edit
    Love you Mayama!

    ~chu~
     
  14. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    We thought of the ammo box thing before, not sure when that's coming in.

    What we could do, is give riflemen timed charges instead mebbe? I'm not sure, but i'm definately not going to condemn explosive grenades before we have a better alternative.
     
  15. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    i agree with ikalx, he nades are good all-aroundersm ,its just the replenish rate that makes them a gay spam weapon

    also whats with the "empires isnt about killing guys behind cover "part?
     
  16. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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  17. Fricken Hamster

    Fricken Hamster Mr. Super Serious

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    Maybe if grenade physics weren't so horrible and they just didn't stop dead on the floor for 5 seconds, they would be used more thoughtfully
     
  18. zenarion

    zenarion Member

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    A shorter fuse on the riflemen grenades. There is no point in throwing grenades over a wall, if the enemy can see them, run away, build a turret, sit back and watch you come out from behind that wall, only to be raped. Shorter the fuse = shorter the range. The grenades suddenly cannot be used over extreme ranges.

    As for turrets, and similar stuff, YES YOU SHOULD FUCKING BRING A GRENADIER ALONG, BECAUSE THAT WAY THE SQUAD CAN COUNTER ANYTHING.
     
  19. Sandbag

    Sandbag Member

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    I 100% support removing grenades from engineer placed ammo boxes.

    except stickies. frankly no player ever has enough stickies, it's really frustrating.
     
  20. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    The problem isn't explosive grenades existing, the problem is they suck at everything but spam.

    They come in large numbers, they have pissweak damage for a grenade, and they have to be used on their own, you can't use them with another weapon.

    The solution is the same one I suggested ages ago, make nades throw with a button and buff them so that they can be used to flush infantry out.

    A grenade with a large explosive radius and a button throw would be ideal if you get right up to a wall and want to take out enemies on the other side, you lob it over the top and get kills or at least seriously injure everyone, then you run round and shoot anyone not already laminated onto the wall by the force of the explosion.

    It encourages people to attack, which we all love, it provides a means for infantry to push forward into dug in enemy positions, as well as a counter to camping HMG dudes, and it keeps grenades while making them useful.

    Once you've done that you can make them more visible so people can avoid them, and adjust damage for all targets, like make them very good against infantry and turrets but not very good against buildings, make the throw range short by default so you can lob them over walls fast but not long distance very easily, and reduce the number carried to one or two.

    Concussions would benefit from the same modifications, increased range of detonation, faster throwing tied to a button. Throw one into a room or over a wall and shoot everyone inside.
     

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