Anyone else dislike the new sabotage?

From reading this thread it seems like people don't realise that sabotage been double nerf in 2.24 from 2.23. Sabotage now does 1.3 damage per sec down from 20 dps from 2.23 and 4 dps from before that. I.E. Sabotage takes 3 times longer to take down a building then ever. Also engineer only have to repair 25 to disable sabotage effect now instead of 50.

 

the times I said in my post are up to date this version, less than a min for sab to kill a ref and around a min and a half to kill a barracks.

 

However, the buildings have had their health adjusted, previously all buildings had the same health.

I think it's faster in 2.24, but even if it isn't it's still much too fast.

 

I think that refs, rep pads and radars weren't touched though(I could be wrong). Armourys now have the same health as turrets(just more resistances) and VFs and raxes got buffed.

It slower in 2.24 then 2.23 but it is faster then before that. It was never 20 or 4 dps. It was 4 then 20 per cycle. It takes 1:42 for rax/vf, 1:04 for ref/radar/repairpad, 44 for armoury/turret(inculding the 4 seconds to sab). It was origonally this.

So when 20 per cycle instead of 4 was in that means the cycle was 12 seconds. It origonally did .33 Dps then it did 1.66 Dps now it does 1.33 Dps. This still means its 4 times more powerful then what it originally was. Also, all it takes is getting the buildings health over 50ish% for sab to stop.

 

Commy has had way too much to drink..........

In a way, I kind of like the new system, since it makes the scout class marginally useful.

 

GAH, no.

No to putting it on a skill, I mean. No new scout skills! The scout already needs far too many skills just to have the basic, core skillset that identifies them as a class. We should be focusing on making some of its skills innate abilities, not taking more of its innate abilities and turning them into skills.

If sabotage is OP, tweak it a bit (like I said, I favor making it so it wears down structures, but doesn't reduce 'large' buildings below 1 hp -- it should still kill turrets, though.)

But don't make it require a skill, not even a "sabotage upgrade!" skill. That path just doesn't seem to have worked for the scout.

 

Well right now the scout has the same amount of skills as the engi. Im going to compare the skills to how i think it should be.
(note I'll be using the skill changes I've already made out)

Hide-Healing Upgrade
With an innate hide, some form of hide skill would have to increase to more then it is. Akin to healing upgrade, there should be a satisfactory amount innately, but can supercharge for a skill, but it uses are limited.

Radar Stealth-Repair Upgrade
With there being an innate hide I think that this should be the staple of the scout class. With complete non-visual detection immunity the scout would gain tactical advantages and all around more usefulness akin to repair upgrade.

Vehicle Speed-Vehicle Cooling
Every class needs some form of vehicle skill.

Enhanced Senses-Revive
A skill that Is quite powerful, and more then likely will be the second or first choice of skills.

"Improved Sabotage"-Turret Upgrade
A boost to a pre existing special tool. The innate versions are still useful and can be set aside to upgrade for other skills. However, if the focus of your skill set and strategy is this skill, It can be incredibly effective if used right. Will often require at least 2 skills or a teamate to work truely effectively.

Weapon Silencer-???? walls maybe ????
This skill doesn't really have an opposite for engis. This is also probably the least used scout skill right now. Vehicle speed and radar stealth get used on jeeps now, hide is the iconic skill that the class is mainly based around and enhanced senses is just plain useful. I suppose if the innate hide is just hide as it is now and there was no hide skill this could be somewhat akin to healing upgrade. The concealment of the scouts presense would be an innate thing that gets buffed for limited, but powerful use. Then there would be no more skills then there are now.

Edit:

Just wondering, what does this mean. What hasn't worked for the scout?

 

The way things are now, I mean, with the scout requiring multiple skills in order to have their basic role -- especially hide in order to deal with turrets (well, they can use concussions, but then you're limited by low ammo) and enhanced senses to get an advantage over other infantry. ATM scouts need to devote a skill to simply get a role at all, basically, while other classes start with one innately -- the engineer can build/repair/etc, the gren can hurt tanks and shell turrets, the rifleman has an advantage over infantry, and so forth.

But the scout doesn't enough that's really useful until they spend a skill. This is part of their problem (though only part.)

 

They get to sabotage without a skill, no?

 

^engie get heal, repair, walls, turrets, and cam/radar
rifleman gets rifles and armor
grens get mines, RPG's, and mortor. they still need ammo or armor detect to be set though
scouts get sab (and used to get faster stamina recharge, dont know if they still do though) but need enhanced senses or hide to be set.

so the anti-tank class and the anti-building/infiltration classes start one step behind the anti-infantry and the support/building classes.

 

Nay
Concussion will stun a turret for 11 seconds if it lands inside directly on the turret hitbox(if I remember correctly), which is impossible. Usual stun time is about 3 seconds maybe 5 if your extremely lucky. So again, a scout is USELESS against more than 1 turret

 

Ok, maybe that should be buffed. Maybe even mega-buffed.

Why not just have it disable the turret until repaired? I mean, an engineer could easily destroy the turret with a grenade; disabling it is hardly a game-breaking ability.

 

but can't the scout just crawl up to it and sabotage it?

why make sabotage useless

 

Long range sabo nade?

 

Sabotage wouldn't be useless, because sabotage has unlimited ammo, while concussion grenades have fairly limited ammo... and because scouts have two other kinds of grenades which they might want to take instead.

And, of course, concussion grenades would make a nice alternative to sabotage because crawling around on your belly is slow and leaves you more vulnerable... which is pointless when two other classes can actually destroy the turret much more quickly and easily.

 

While the concussion grenade needs a reason to exist, it doesn't mean it can steal from sabotage's whole reason to exist

 

Since when did sab cause health bleed?

 

Version 1.08 Beta Build 136/RC 15 Changes:
-Added: sabotaged buildings now experience a health drain of 1 HP every 3 secs

 

Seriously? WTF? I played 2.12 to death and never saw any bleed. It just reduced health to 50%. That I find ok. Sab being able to kill so fast, I don't like.

Has sab bleeding actually been in that long? Am I high?

 

Yes and maybe respectivly.

The bleed was just a side effect of the total halving of production. It used to take 2 and half mins to kill a turret... Thats probably why you didnt notice it.