Engine and Armor Upgrades

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by CobaltBlue, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. CobaltBlue

    CobaltBlue Member

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    I suggest that each engine type and each armor type have 2 versions, regular and upgraded. The regular version would be a bit worse than the current versions, and the upgraded version would be a bit better than the current version. The upgraded version would be research-able after the regular version (one branch deeper in the research tree).

    I'm suggesting this because it would be VERY easy to implement(editing text files) and would add variety and playability to the game.

    Pros:
    • Increased playability/variety
    • More tools to help balance game play with
    Cons:
    • Might not get balanced well
    • Might be perceived as "busy work" for the commander
    P.S. I'm guessing MetalSmith has already done this many times on his own. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  2. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    I like it, but for some things it's useless. Take composite for example; upgraded composite would cost what - 45/plate? And be what? MORE overpowered?

    Some things this would be useful for:

    Bio-Diesel
    Reflective
    Absorbant
    Gas Turbine
    Fission Reactor

    Basically things that are barely researched. The reason I suggested these is that the weapons in these might get put into play more often too. (NEWKS ANY1!?!?)
     
  3. spellman23

    spellman23 Member

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    Not a horrible idea. I personally think it would add too much complexity to an already complex tech tree.

    However, I like the concept in it's purpose. Providing a better gradient of choices instead of hard RPS balancing is solid game balancing in my book. Soft counters and choices to spend more time specializing or be more general is great.

    You'll have to define "worse" for me. Do you mean "worse" as in overall not as good, or do you mean just closer to standard armor. If it's more like being between standard and the current types, I'd be more inclined towards the idea.

    I also agree with Shadow. For some types, it's useless. Also, some types are only useful due to their unique property (like bio-diesel). How are you going to deal with a binary property?
     
  4. Satanchild666

    Satanchild666 Banned

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    Upgraded composite? Upgraded Coolant?

    ...
     
  5. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    I already addressed this issue.
    >_>
     
  6. RoboTek

    RoboTek Member

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    To make an extreme version of existent engine or armor types might be interesting and would apply reasonably well to several of them.

    A form of reflective that was fragile but deflected all but the most direct of hits.
    A biodesiel engine that performs better when overheated
    Regenerative armor that regenerates very quickly but is very heavy.
    A fission reactor that doesnt have cooling while moving but cools very fast when stopped and overall has high speed.

    There are all possibilities, but when you actually look at them I have trouble thinking of their use rather than the truer rock-paper-scissors than currently exists.

    I think I would actually prefer expensive general-level upgrades for the engines and armor that were fairly expensive than upgrades that vastly increased their specificity. Perhaps a little bit of additional specialization, but if you focused too much on them their nature would be fickle. Any specialization in them would likely lead to doom eventually when your opponent just focus' on where you are weak. If you provide general improvements along with minor specificity enhancements you can avoid various engine types being crushed in the RPS, but still have their individual flavors and greater purpose in the tech trees.
     
  7. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    Very well spoken, and I agree 110%.

    *Edit

    Very well typed.
     
  8. CobaltBlue

    CobaltBlue Member

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    There are no binary stats for engines.

    I did not suggest making specialized engines exaggeratedly specialized. Engines and armor all use the same stats, and I'm suggesting each engine and armor get over-all upgrades and downgrades.

    All engines and armor would benefit from this.

    I don't personally feel that research is complicated, but that's my opinion.
     
  9. RoboTek

    RoboTek Member

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    I tested it. Being able to drive while overheated is a binary stat.

    My point is merely that these overall downgrades you speak of. Those are specialization. Even upgrading some stats less than others is specialization to an extent.My point is merely that if you emphasize certain aspects of engines with these upgrades by downgrading the others it will lead to engines that are very poor overall because of their ease of being countered even though they are very 'nifty'.
     
  10. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    But we should be able to counter that with a general upgrade though.

    Or is what you're typing that the specialization of an engine is also dependent on the base(general) stats?
     
  11. CobaltBlue

    CobaltBlue Member

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    unfortunately every thing you just said was wrong.
     
  12. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    make the things not upgradeable better then the first tier versions of the upgradable things, but then make the second tier outclass the non-upgradables

    this also gives a choice, go for a tree with weaker basic armor but stronger end armor later on? or early good armor but no extra options for later games in that tree

    so lets just assume we have 2 armor types, 1 can be upgraded later (well call it bio armor for the record, because i know it will be one of the upgradeable research paths if any) , another cant be upgraded ( composite, for the same reason but reversed as before)

    composite > bio armor tier I

    composite < bio armor tier II
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2009
  13. RoboTek

    RoboTek Member

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    Fascinating, either you misunderstood me or I somehow made a mistake in my tests. I will retest that parameter then.
     
  14. CobaltBlue

    CobaltBlue Member

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    For an analogy I'll use an RPG model. A warrior and a Mage level-up.

    Warrior:
    Str: 18 > +1 > 19
    Int: 9 > +1 > 10
    wis: 7 > +2 > 9
    Vit: 14 > +0 > 14
    Dex:12 > +1 > 13
    Lck: 9 > +1 > 10

    Mage:
    Str: 9 > +1 > 10
    Int: 20 > +0 > 20
    wis: 12 > +2 > 14
    Vit: 9 > +1 > 10
    Dex: 10 > +1 > 11
    Lck: 14 > +0 > 14

    Both classes have a specialization and the random level-ups didn't make them more specialized it just made them generally better. If you targeted there specialized stats you could have made them even more specialized, but that's not a necessity.

    Biodiesel for example wouldn't be upgraded and down graded by having it's resilience messed with. It would get increases and decreases to things like heat, max speed, horse power, etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2009
  15. RoboTek

    RoboTek Member

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    Yes... this is correct... however actively decreasing certain attributes would lead to things like the mage being so easy to walk up to and punch in the face that nobody would use any of the extreme examples. They would be too easy to counter.

    I never believed that the increase shouldn't be focused to an extent, it just shouldn't sharpen an already point object to the point of fragility.
     
  16. o_O

    o_O Member

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    How would upgrading a specialized engine make it more counterable? How do you counter an engine anyway? Push the tank so its stuck somewhere?

    Anyway this would add a ton of new strategies to the RTS part of the game. At least until someone figured out which was best. But still it would make combat more interesting, upgraded armor/engine tanks vs HE tanks and stuff.
     
  17. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    He has it right, it's not like there's a 'special' way to counter an engine. Armor is another matter, but EVEN IF the enemy comm researched the EXACT OPPOSITE, the upgraded armor would surpass it.
     

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