Artillery Interceptor(turret)

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by PredatoR[HUN], Jan 27, 2009.

  1. PredatoR[HUN]

    PredatoR[HUN] Member

    Messages:
    1,704
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Basically,a researchable turret that shots down the arty shells.
    can be droped by commanders and maybe engineers.

    Pros:
    Balances artillery
    may improve teamwork


    cons:
    coding,modeling etc.
     
  2. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

    Messages:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Artillery is supposed to be a base killer, there's no point having artillery if it doesn't kill bases.
     
  3. Lollum

    Lollum Tester++

    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There is no point having anything when artillery is researched.
    But a turret like this wont balance it, we need to balance arty itself which I think will happen anyway.
     
  4. Sandbag

    Sandbag Member

    Messages:
    1,172
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    this would make it easier to turtle. artilliary is one of the things that keeps the game flowing, because once they get on the field then you either attack them or you get beat down.
     
  5. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Uhm yes and artillery is the most unfun part of the game.
    Shelling enemys with it is not really entertaining.
    Getting attacked is, well, frustraiting.

    Because most maps are build in a way so you cant attack the arty.
     
  6. Sirex

    Sirex Member

    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    But on the other hand lies that attacking an enemy which has turtled to extremes because they know they are losing is not fun either.
     
  7. Metal Smith

    Metal Smith Member

    Messages:
    4,520
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    artillery is fine if you don't block up the choke points of a map. Artillery breaks stalemates on maps with choke points. Getting pwned by artillery on an open map is just your own fault.
     
  8. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There should be a possibility to break turtled in
    choke points that are not so boring as arty.
     
  9. Fricken Hamster

    Fricken Hamster Mr. Super Serious

    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why not make the recharge time on anti artillery turrets long, so you must have a lot of them to completely defend a base. First you use your tanks to take out the turrets, then your artys can attack
     
  10. GoodGame

    GoodGame Member

    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As an extra function of Level 3 turrets? Trade-off is the turrets are distracted by arty. How many hitpoints/shots to take down an arty shells.
     
  11. OuNin

    OuNin Member

    Messages:
    3,703
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What if grenadier RPG can target artillery shells in the sky?

    Game becomes 50 times more awesome.
     
  12. Fricken Hamster

    Fricken Hamster Mr. Super Serious

    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    this might be possible if u have a targeting system that showed u where to shoot to hit the artys hells ot haty ouc anh iti t as it goes down
     
  13. Sherbie

    Sherbie Member

    Messages:
    441
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That's a good idea!
     
  14. Aquillion

    Aquillion Member

    Messages:
    1,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What is with the crippling fear of 'turtling' in Empires?

    Yes, it's bad when a game drags out after it's become obvious that one side has won. But the solution to that is to provide ways people can win through defense (while still providing an incentive to attack, which we have through refs), not to make it impossible to defend at all. Sometimes a good siege can be fun, as long as the game has mechanisms to keep it moving and interesting, and as long as it hasn't already become painfully obvious who has won. (Arty isn't a mechanism to keep it moving; arty is a mechanism to make it go away completely.)

    Rushing should not be a 100% win guaranteed victory strategy. Putting everything into attacking constantly at all times without exception should be a viable strategy, but it shouldn't be the only strategy; that just makes games repetitive. There should be advantages to fortifying and making use of a fortified location... and there shouldn't be a win button that magically makes all fortifications redundant, no more than there's a win button that automatically makes heavies or rushes redundant.

    Arty should have an advantage over teams that are too defensive; they should be the answer to that situation. But they shouldn't win automatically, and they shouldn't make defensive strategies totally obsolete the way they often do now.

    There is a happy middle ground between "everyone turtling all the time" and "RUSH OUR ARTY NOW OR DIE", is what I'm saying.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  15. teh_ham

    teh_ham Member

    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Personally, I think there needs to be a feasible counter to artys in terms of vehicles. For instance, the BE APC is vulnerable to LT attacks, unless it has DU or BioMG. But since arty can be so devastating to a base or chokepoint, I really think the only vehicle capable of countering such a threat would be Gunships. The sooner they are implemented the better.
     
  16. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

    Messages:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Then arty should be nerfed, make it so that it can't kill things as quickly, make it more vulnerable, make it so that it can't run away if rushed, make it more about attrition than anihilation, all of these things could be considered but making bases resistant to artillery with turrets isn't the solution.

    I suggested this in the tester forum so I may as well post it here, it doesn't reveal anything, just a suggestion:

     
  17. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

    Messages:
    10,552
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    turtles never win, they lose due to the inherent flawed tactic they use, and since defense is a part of the game it can use as much facets as possible, as to provide the turtle with the illusion of being able to make a water proof defense, but increasing the amount of weak spots in a standardized defense

    in practice: a turtle will never have substantially more resources then the other side, if he does then the turtle could just rush the other side, and the other side is a team of dumb asses that do not recapture unprotected res nodes, or the map has to few choke points

    if a turtle puts all his resources in missile turrets, infantry and artillery will break his shell

    if a turtle puts all his resources in gun turrets, artillery and tanks will break his shell

    if a turtle puts all his resources in these so called "anti-arty" turrets, infantry and tanks will break his shell

    if a turtle equally divided his efforts over missile, gun, and "anti-artillery" turrets, the attacking side just has to "pick" something and attack only with that to break his shell

    if the turtle makes up a mix of turrets to complement best to the attacking strategy, the attacker just has to "change strategy" to win, this can be as much as to change from artillery attacks over the front to his main base, to artillery shelling the front and apc's sniping the turrets from afar, or tanks shelling as if they where artillery, or a full fledged apc rush.. or anything for that matter that shifts the attacking sides forces away from what it first was

    basically, you have with empires a rock paper scissors gameplay, and artillery is the magma wildcard, as it defeats everything (if used correctly)

    but in stead of solving this with something as an artillery turret, i would wait for airplanes, as this will probably tun out to be the natural enemy of the artillery tanks, as they are weakly armored and slow, and airplanes are highly mobile and almost impossible to hit with an artillery tank

    then again, a temporary measure as "anti artillery turret" could "fix" the wildcard problem but i doubt it is worth the effort, prove me wrong if you think otherwise
     
  18. Sandbag

    Sandbag Member

    Messages:
    1,172
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree chris.

    sadly, deploying wouldn't work due because of rocket sniping. it'd be impossible to use except from behind walls or natural map features, and i'm sure you can see why that wouldn't work.

    one of the worst things about the current arty is that you have to turn the entire artilliary in order to change the horisontal position of the crosshair. If possible, horisontally moving the mouse should rotate the entire body of the vehicle, as long as it has a limiting speed (so no spinning artilliarys)

    I've never understood why artilliary should be allowed 3 plates of armour on all sides, and to be so fast moving backwards.

    so artilliary would become more accurate but less tank like. perhaps they could even get a slight range increase if their health was decreased.
     
  19. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

    Messages:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't see the problem at all with having to use it behind walls, that's a good thing. It means you need to keep it back and it can't defend itself against tank rushes. I also agree that it could use less armor, and have heard suggestions to that effect.
     
  20. -Mayama-

    -Mayama- MANLY MAN BITCH

    Messages:
    6,487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Seriously, it doesnt matter if your arty has armor.
    You just need a hill (slaughtered is the worst case scenario)
    or your comm walled of the chokepoint and you are
    almost immortal.
    I dont know why so many people argument that tanks can kill
    artillery. Tanks cant drive or shot trough hills or walls so how
    can they kill the arty.

    At the moment 2x small arty is devastating, it will be removed
    in the next version but what does that matter. Standart engine/armor
    arty with HE is almost as fast to research and yes you will overheat
    and yes you can fire enough shells to eliminate everything bevor you overheat.

    I accept that arty is a lategame weapon, that part in which
    infantry has not a real role anymore in the big picture.
    But because arty is so fast to research now you have the
    "lategame scenario" inserted bevor the midgame.
    And because one arty elimates infantry threats in a wide area,
    infantry is almost usless now bevor the midgame has started.

    I dont know why people put so much effort into making infantry
    stuff better if it isnt needed anymore after one third of the game.
     

Share This Page